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GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

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Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume the US/NATO also jams GPS/use some sort of scrambler for the unencrypted signal to have some military advantage...

I think the US military uses a different GPS signal that provides higher accuracy positioning.

The feature is called "Selective Availability", and has been disabled since May 2000.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_analysis_for_the_Global_...

Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#22
post #2

I don’t see the assumption of the cause in the PDF (difficult to read on this tiny mobile device). Could it be iron ore or something else affecting the magnetic fields? Does this happen elsewhere on earth?

Seems unlikely to be a natural phenomenon, considering it's never been noticed before. Could be the Russians are up to something? Jamming GPS signals would be a significant strategic advantage in war time.

It's bad if you relly on one and only system. As there is NAVSTAR GPS, Glonass and Galileo you'll have to jam your own system too.

Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#23
post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seems unlikely to be a natural phenomenon, considering it's never been noticed before. Could be the Russians are up to something? Jamming GPS signals would be a significant strategic advantage in war time.

It's bad if you relly on one and only system. As there is NAVSTAR GPS, Glonass and Galileo you'll have to jam your own system too.

All current aviation GNSS systems only use GPS (US system) as far as I'm aware. There are some GLONASS dongles such as Garmin GLO, but they're not IFR approved.

Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would assume the US/NATO also jams GPS/use some sort of scrambler for the unencrypted signal to have some military advantage...

Yeah, it's also possible that it was the Swedish armed forces/NATO doing the jamming as part of the exercise. In this case they would probably jam both GPS and GLONASS. Seems politically quite risky though, what if some ambulance didn't reach their target or something like that? (Although I guess an easy workaround for that could have been tight coordination with the local rescue services - stop the jamming the momen…

Do ambulances typically operate at 2k-3k feet?

Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#25
post #3

I experienced a very odd GPS failures about a week later (September 24) in south-eastern Sweden. At one point I was driving for about an hour (in quite isolated areas - around https://www.google.com/maps/@58.0381615,16.2094966,13.37z ) without my iphone being able to get a gps fix. It's never happened before, or since. The phone was fixed to the car's front window with plenty of sight towards the sky. I rebooted the…

I would assume the US/NATO also jams GPS/use some sort of scrambler for the unencrypted signal to have some military advantage...

You are quite correct, notification of exercise-related jamming is published in NOTAMs at least here in the UK. For example for Exercise Joint Warrior 171 this year:

Q) EGPX/QWELW/IV/BO/W/000/400/5836N00447W135

B) FROM: 17/04/02 07:00C) TO: 17/04/02 17:00

E) GPS JAMMING WI 135NM RADIUS 583600N 0044630W (FARAID HEAD). USERS MAY EXPERIENCE ERRONEOUS PSN INFO OR DEFAULT DEAD RECKONING MODE. PERIODS OF GPS JAMMING WILL NOT LAST LONGER THAN 40 MINUTES AT ANY ONE TIME.

Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#26
It is worth noting that there are two different ways to attack GPS: jamming and spoofing. Jamming is when you broadcast a noise signal at the GPS frequency, which prevents affected receivers from receiving the GPS signal. The result is that the GPS doesn't know where it is. Spoofing is when you send out a fake GPS signal that appears genuine but has the wrong timing. The result is that the GPS thinks it knows where it is, but it's wrong. Spoofing is more difficult -- and far more serious -- than jamming. What is reported here appears to be (an attempt at) jamming, but spoofing attacks have also been reported in the past.

https://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2017/09/gps_spoofing_...

Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, it's also possible that it was the Swedish armed forces/NATO doing the jamming as part of the exercise. In this case they would probably jam both GPS and GLONASS. Seems politically quite risky though, what if some ambulance didn't reach their target or something like that? (Although I guess an easy workaround for that could have been tight coordination with the local rescue services - stop the jamming the momen…

Do ambulances typically operate at 2k-3k feet?

remote region ==> air ambulance?

Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#28
post #6
post #2

I don’t see the assumption of the cause in the PDF (difficult to read on this tiny mobile device). Could it be iron ore or something else affecting the magnetic fields? Does this happen elsewhere on earth?

But after a few tens of meters in the air we see a noise signal. [...] The noise signal is on GPS L1 (1575.42 MHz) with 1 MHz bandwidth, see Figure 3-5. So the signal is jammed by something sending a noise signal around the L1 frequency, whether intentionally or not.

Look at the screenshot from the spectrum analyzer. That's a very specific signal, uniform in power, centered on the L1 frequency, and contained to a 1MHz bandwidth. That's intentional, not some random event.

Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#29
post #26

It is worth noting that there are two different ways to attack GPS: jamming and spoofing. Jamming is when you broadcast a noise signal at the GPS frequency, which prevents affected receivers from receiving the GPS signal. The result is that the GPS doesn't know where it is. Spoofing is when you send out a fake GPS signal that appears genuine but has the wrong timing. The result is that the GPS thinks it knows where i…

This is what keeps my awake at night sometimes... that one of US drones flying over Afghanistan will be eventually fooled into thinking the target it has to drop a bomb on is actually somewhere else over the Europe.

Re: GPS signal disturbed at altitudes above 2000-3000 feet over Norway [pdf]

#30
post #21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think the US military uses a different GPS signal that provides higher accuracy positioning.

The feature is called "Selective Availability", and has been disabled since May 2000. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Error_analysis_for_the_Global_...

So are you saying that the US military does not have a higher accuracy positioning system? I highly doubt that.
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