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The Disappearing American Grad Student

nytimes.com

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Re: The Disappearing American Grad Student

#11

Post by gervase »

ralusek wrote: post #5

Do we have any numbers of how many of these foreign individuals stay in the country after graduation? When you think about how immigration works, immigrants are very disproportionately likely to be high-performing individuals, given the criteria for them to enter the country. If they stay in the country to contribute to the economy after graduation, then all I can say is that I'm glad they still think that this is a…

I can't speak to overall statistical numbers, but of the 75+ international graduate students that I've spoken to, I would estimate at least 85% plan to stay in the U.S.

I find this particularly surprising given that their status is essentially that of indentured servants; their advisors can deport them at any time with only 14 days of notice. This one-way power dynamic can produce cruel, callous treatment and merciless working hours, both of which I've observed first-hand. And yet, these same professors will turn around and collaborate politely and respectfully with American students (assuming that they will take on American students in their labs; many will not!).

It's really very depressing.

Re: The Disappearing American Grad Student

#12

Post by ll931110 »

FYI, many top schools (MIT, Harvard, etc.) have explicit quota on how many international undergrads are admitted per year (at MIT it's about 120 students, or 10 percent of undergrads). There is no such limit at grad level, since the money typically comes from research groups and grants, so the limiting factor is really the research group's budget.

Re: The Disappearing American Grad Student

#13

Post by surfmike »

ralusek wrote: post #5

Do we have any numbers of how many of these foreign individuals stay in the country after graduation? When you think about how immigration works, immigrants are very disproportionately likely to be high-performing individuals, given the criteria for them to enter the country. If they stay in the country to contribute to the economy after graduation, then all I can say is that I'm glad they still think that this is a…

Indeed, I think this is one of the biggest strengths of the US. Think about many of the smartest minds in science of the 20th century— many were immigrants to the US.

Re: The Disappearing American Grad Student

#14

Post by rdtsc »

gervase wrote: post #11
ralusek wrote: post #5

Do we have any numbers of how many of these foreign individuals stay in the country after graduation? When you think about how immigration works, immigrants are very disproportionately likely to be high-performing individuals, given the criteria for them to enter the country. If they stay in the country to contribute to the economy after graduation, then all I can say is that I'm glad they still think that this is a…

I can't speak to overall statistical numbers, but of the 75+ international graduate students that I've spoken to, I would estimate at least 85% plan to stay in the U.S. I find this particularly surprising given that their status is essentially that of indentured servants; their advisors can deport them at any time with only 14 days of notice. This one-way power dynamic can produce cruel, callous treatment and mercile…

My friend quit his postdoc with a prestigious researcher in his field after witnessing the abuse the international students in the same group were subjected to.

Re: The Disappearing American Grad Student

#15

Post by [deleted] »

gervase wrote: post #11
ralusek wrote: post #5

Do we have any numbers of how many of these foreign individuals stay in the country after graduation? When you think about how immigration works, immigrants are very disproportionately likely to be high-performing individuals, given the criteria for them to enter the country. If they stay in the country to contribute to the economy after graduation, then all I can say is that I'm glad they still think that this is a…

I can't speak to overall statistical numbers, but of the 75+ international graduate students that I've spoken to, I would estimate at least 85% plan to stay in the U.S. I find this particularly surprising given that their status is essentially that of indentured servants; their advisors can deport them at any time with only 14 days of notice. This one-way power dynamic can produce cruel, callous treatment and mercile…

[deleted]

Re: The Disappearing American Grad Student

#16

Post by kristopolous »

They make a single mention of what could be a significant contributing factor; student debt. A quick google search for India and China show that many of their top public universities charge ~$300 and ~$800/year while UC Berkeley is over $14,000.

After 4 years, with on-campus housing the first year, the Berkeley student owes about $72,000 while the Indian student owes $1,200.

As far as the income differences between the countries, the average Indian saves 31.4% [1] of an average $6,490/yr which means $2,037. While in the US it's 5.7% [2] of $58,030 which means $3,307.

So stated another way, the Indian education costs 0yr/7mon of average savings while the US one costs 21yr/9mon. By the time the American child has their bachelors, the American parents are already broke while the Indian parent's savings reserves haven't been depleted - a 2 year graduate program is something they still have the cash for.

[1] https://www.quora.com/What-is-the-average-savings-rate-in-In...

[2] https://www.fool.com/saving/2016/10/03/heres-the-average-ame...

Re: The Disappearing American Grad Student

#17

Post by khuey »

surfmike wrote: post #10
noobermin wrote: post #2

The article misses something I think makes part of it: grad school is a ticket to establishing some level of connection in the US for foreigners, and some use it as a spring board to getting a job in the US. They need this because a graduate degree actually is losing its value given the poor job market for PhDs. The prospects of a job after graduate school are diminishing the closer you get to a PhD; it just makes le…

Foreigners who went to grad school are very heavily represented in Silicon Valley. Perhaps going all the way for a PhD is not worth it (debatable, some of my CS PhD friends have done incredibly well) but a Masters is definitely a strong path to success.

The extra H1-B spots for advanced degree holders may have something to do with that.

Re: The Disappearing American Grad Student

#19

Post by aaron-lebo »

kristopolous wrote: post #16

They make a single mention of what could be a significant contributing factor; student debt. A quick google search for India and China show that many of their top public universities charge ~$300 and ~$800/year while UC Berkeley is over $14,000. After 4 years, with on-campus housing the first year, the Berkeley student owes about $72,000 while the Indian student owes $1,200. As far as the income differences between t…

Not sure you can compare them so directly. $800 is an unobtainable sum (?) for 1 billion Chinese/Indians. I'd also wonder about the difference in quality between UC Berkeley and a lot of those colleges. They are probably very good but US colleges tend to dominate world rankings (partially why everyone goes to them). If outsiders are willing to spend money in your schools, what happens to prices?

I'm also unsure about the comparison between averages (500 billion impoverished + 500 billion wealthy makes for an uninformative average), or savings rate. If US families save less (for cultural reasons or they don't need to), it's not relevant. Or it might be late.

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