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Why Do We Still Commute?

citylab.com

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Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#371

Post by nunez »

PeterStuer wrote: post #171
nunez wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I personally wouldn’t want to work somewhere where I hardly ever saw my coworkers. I’m pseudo-remote as a consultant and wish I got to have more face time with my peers.

Can you tell us why?

Sure! I like people. People make work fun. People that disagree with you (or that you disagree with) make life fun. Most of us spend the majority of our working hours working, and that work makes it easy to spark conversations with others that would otherwise not be had. Not having that for 8+ hours would make me feel incredibly lonely after a while.

(I love working at the cafe and shared work spaces, but that isn’t the same.)

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#372

Post by felipelemos »

posterboy wrote: post #339
stronglikedan wrote: post #310

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just my personal anecdote, but I have much more discipline in the office than I do at home. I get distracted by everything at home, and I procrastinate by doing things I couldn't do at work, like housework, watching tv, etc. I know myself enough to know that I cannot trust myself to work at home on a regular basis, and I'm more content with myself regarding my productivity at the office.

So, you are analog to a wild animal domesticated at the work place.

That's not a nice thing to say.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#373

Post by sidlls »

wolco wrote: post #347
scaryclam wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The writing part isn't really the main benefit of whiteboarding. Standing there, pointing at things and chatting about it is a really big part. Then there's the physical size. Quite often I find it much nicer to stand in front of a board and draw on a large scale. The current attempts at remote whiteboards are really not suitable replacements. VR would a giant help as body language, gesturing and physical size all be…

For us left handed people it means blocking the board while I write. You can draw things in different sizes through remote whiteboard, you can add helpful icons and your voice can get louder or quieter for effect.

Righities block the board, too, depending on the side they're on.

And you can't effectively draw some things on a tiny monitor screen.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#374

Post by EliRivers »

dionidium wrote: post #343
EliRivers wrote: post #337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My other half works in Singapore inspecting and certifying and maintaining ship hulls, and she pretty much has to go to the ship to do it. It seems kind of harsh to call that a bullshit job because she can't do it in the living room. I can think of an awful lot more jobs that are pretty well defined but nonetheless can't be done in someone's living room.

"All bullshit jobs require you to be on site" is a different statement from, "all jobs that require you to be on site are bullshit." The person you're responding to didn't say what you think they said.

"If your job is well defined, e.g. make an app or a website design, you can do it anywhere in the world."

That's the OP's exact words. Inspecting a ship hull is clearly defined, yet I cannot do it in my living room. Likewise mopping the floors at MacDonald's. Very clearly defined, yet cannot be done anywhere in the world; I have to go to the actual floor that needs mopping.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#375

Post by bartedinburgh »

EliRivers wrote: post #374
dionidium wrote: post #343

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"All bullshit jobs require you to be on site" is a different statement from, "all jobs that require you to be on site are bullshit." The person you're responding to didn't say what you think they said.

"If your job is well defined, e.g. make an app or a website design, you can do it anywhere in the world." That's the OP's exact words. Inspecting a ship hull is clearly defined, yet I cannot do it in my living room. Likewise mopping the floors at MacDonald's. Very clearly defined, yet cannot be done anywhere in the world; I have to go to the actual floor that needs mopping.

You are right. In my original post I implicitly meant office jobs (software in particular). I kept that assumption implicit because I understood that the article was concerned with jobs that had the potential to be done remotely and thus save you the commute time. Mopping floors does not have the remote potential in the first place, while some (most?) office jobs do.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#376

Post by sokoloff »

humanrebar wrote: post #358
sokoloff wrote: post #281

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe. (In fact, we already care quite a bit about commuting time and ease because we want to retain our developers in a very competitive employment market.) I think it's more likely that the interview process would just have another step to suss out how much commuting time I'd be paying you for, and then figuring out how to divide up your day rate of $400 (higher in reality, of course) across the buckets. So Laura L…

> So Laura Long Commute gets $40/hr * 10 hrs/day and Sally Short Commute gets $50/hr * 8 hours/day. You'd have to be careful about that. Employers might end up, in data, showing a negative impact against some protected class (married people, certain races) if they weigh hiring or compensation decisions based on proximity to the office. It's my understanding that current jurisprudence doesn't require proof of intentio…

Which is all the more reason to make the job the job and the responsibility of getting to the job not [a paid part of] the job.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#377

Post by k__ »

CalRobert wrote: post #22
k__ wrote: post #6

I work remote almost 100% and it'a pretty awesome. A Dev I work with has to commute through 50% of Germany every week. He only sees his kids on the weekend.

If you time it right and the traffic and weather's good, you can get through 50% of Germany pretty quick :-).

True, but my point was, that they are away from their family the whole work week.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#378

Post by majewsky »

wolco wrote: post #305
salvar wrote: post #239

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm having trouble understanding you. Are you saying that: 1. All work-related discussion should take place in formal meetings. and 2. No non-work-related discussions should ever happen in the workplace. ?

The poster is saying if you are discussing non work related things it is unprofessional because you are paid to work not socialize. If you are having a discussion with your boss don't bother him when he is on a break, book a meeting. I agree with parent poster in large orgs but in orgs where the founder eats lunch with you that level of formalness is awkward

A company where I may not ever discuss non-work-related things sounds like a bizarre dystopia.

"I'll grab a donut from the store across the street. Does anyone else want something?" - "No, we don't because YOU'RE FIRED."

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#379

Post by sethammons »

BjoernKW wrote: post #140
sethammons wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article has links to studies that say face to face is important for complex problems. What is your counter aside from saying there are examples supporting your view? Source? (I would link the links here but am on mobile and running late)

Here are a few that back up my view: https://www.gsb.stanford.edu/faculty-research/working-papers... http://www.cosocloud.com/press-release/connectsolutions-surv... https://www.zenefits.com/blog/remote-employees-happier-and-m...

I don't find your links to counter the links in the article. Yours say that remote work increases productivity (for a call center specifically) and increases employee happiness. The article's links call out that collaborative and complex tasks along with spontaneous new ideas benefit from face to face.

I think these are both true and would advocate for a work solution that allows amble work from home but encourages common face to face time especially if a team is tackling a complex issue. Maybe two or three days per week remote?

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#380

Post by sethammons »

wolco wrote: post #308
sethammons wrote: post #135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article has links to studies that say face to face is important for complex problems. What is your counter aside from saying there are examples supporting your view? Source? (I would link the links here but am on mobile and running late)

Really? I can't imagine how. Most important discoveries were not found by committees.

In the article, a linked study of some IT folks doing complex infrastructure tasks and set up benefited from face to face interaction as compared to collaborating over email. Complex tasks does not mean pushing the needle on human advancement in science. Those in the study did not try to invent tcp/ip. They were just working on complex tasks.

Remote vs face to face debate is about the interplay of folks trying to earn a living, providing value to an organization, living life, and companies making profits. In this regard, it looks like a balance of remote to face to face could increase productivity, happiness, and ability to work on complex tasks.

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