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Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

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Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#121

Post by [deleted] »

corysama wrote: post #52
RealityVoid wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not. It still uses proof of work, for now at least. They say they want to implement proof of stake. THAT will be interesting, but I want to see if they ever get there.

There was an interesting article "Nothing is cheaper than proof of work"[1] that talked about both proof-of-stake and using miners to heat your home. Basically, if you decide you are willing to pay $9 to make $10 back, then discover you are additionally saving $1 off your heating bill, you will logically be willing to pay up to $10 to make $10 back + $1 in savings. But, the main point of the article was that "proof o…

[deleted]

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#122

Post by dqpb »

andbberger wrote: post #103
wlesieutre wrote: post #3

Didn't watch the video, but a quick point on how the energy efficiency of this works out: Electric heaters are 100% efficient at turning electrical energy into heat. All the energy they take in, that's where it goes. Bitcoin mining (and computers in general) are basically in the same boat. There's some ancillary energy use for blowing air around or shining lights or making sound waves, but for the most part the elect…

This is silly, CPUs are 100% efficient at converting electrical energy into heat. Where do you think that 'ancillary energy' is going? Obviously heat pumps are more efficient - that's kinda beside the point though. The main point here is you can take anywhere you had a resistive heating element and replace it with a mining chip, and you're now doing something useful with that energy you were turning into heat anyway.…

and you're now doing something useful with that energy you were turning into heat anyway.

Is it useful? My (limited) understanding is that most of the work is just arbitrarily difficult number guessing for the sole purpose of being throttled...

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#123

Post by dqpb »

ArchReaper wrote: post #19
acjohnson55 wrote: post #11

Of course, it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation. Then we could use this computation for something that's actually valuable, like protein folding, or something, and still make use of the waste heat.

>it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation Sure, but that's a technology that does not exist. If you can figure out how to create a blockchain-like concept, where the 'proof of work' actually contributes to humanity, you have invented the next big thing. Edit: Reading the comments below me, it looks like this is a space that is being actively explored. Exciting!

where the 'proof of work' actually contributes to humanity

Wouldn't a cheaper throttle be easier?

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#124

Post by wlesieutre »

andbberger wrote: post #103
wlesieutre wrote: post #3

Didn't watch the video, but a quick point on how the energy efficiency of this works out: Electric heaters are 100% efficient at turning electrical energy into heat. All the energy they take in, that's where it goes. Bitcoin mining (and computers in general) are basically in the same boat. There's some ancillary energy use for blowing air around or shining lights or making sound waves, but for the most part the elect…

This is silly, CPUs are 100% efficient at converting electrical energy into heat. Where do you think that 'ancillary energy' is going? Obviously heat pumps are more efficient - that's kinda beside the point though. The main point here is you can take anywhere you had a resistive heating element and replace it with a mining chip, and you're now doing something useful with that energy you were turning into heat anyway.…

>Obviously heat pumps are more efficient - that's kinda beside the point though.

Only obvious if you know what a heat pump is!

Plenty of people will hear "Electrical heating is 100% efficient" and interpret that to mean it's the ideal solution, when in a lot of cases it's just about the worst.

But yes, if you have electrical heating, you could throw in some CPUs or ASICs instead and they'll work just as well. The return on investment for cryptocurrency may drop off a cliff when the next silicon process comes out and mines more for the same energy, it's hard to see people wanting to keep upgrading their baseboard heaters on the same cycle that computers get replaced.

Whether it's money positive vs resistive heating will depend on A) price of your electronics relative to a cheap electric heater, B) how it stacks up vs future electronics if the payoff doesn't happen while it's new, and C) how insane the cryptocurrency markets get.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#125

Post by maxerickson »

dqpb wrote: post #122
andbberger wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is silly, CPUs are 100% efficient at converting electrical energy into heat. Where do you think that 'ancillary energy' is going? Obviously heat pumps are more efficient - that's kinda beside the point though. The main point here is you can take anywhere you had a resistive heating element and replace it with a mining chip, and you're now doing something useful with that energy you were turning into heat anyway.…

and you're now doing something useful with that energy you were turning into heat anyway. Is it useful? My (limited) understanding is that most of the work is just arbitrarily difficult number guessing for the sole purpose of being throttled...

It's useful if you like money and the setup using the mining rig has a lower net cost than other heating.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#126

Post by dragonwriter »

wlesieutre wrote: post #124
andbberger wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is silly, CPUs are 100% efficient at converting electrical energy into heat. Where do you think that 'ancillary energy' is going? Obviously heat pumps are more efficient - that's kinda beside the point though. The main point here is you can take anywhere you had a resistive heating element and replace it with a mining chip, and you're now doing something useful with that energy you were turning into heat anyway.…

>Obviously heat pumps are more efficient - that's kinda beside the point though. Only obvious if you know what a heat pump is! Plenty of people will hear "Electrical heating is 100% efficient" and interpret that to mean it's the ideal solution, when in a lot of cases it's just about the worst. But yes, if you have electrical heating, you could throw in some CPUs or ASICs instead and they'll work just as well. The ret…

> Whether it's money positive vs resistive heating

Strictly speaking, isn't it just a special case of resistive heating?

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#127

Post by wrcwill »

wlesieutre wrote: post #3

Didn't watch the video, but a quick point on how the energy efficiency of this works out: Electric heaters are 100% efficient at turning electrical energy into heat. All the energy they take in, that's where it goes. Bitcoin mining (and computers in general) are basically in the same boat. There's some ancillary energy use for blowing air around or shining lights or making sound waves, but for the most part the elect…

Right, heat pumps cost 4x less, but a miner is returning profit. The only argument to be had is an ecological one. Mining is cheaper than a heat pump, gas, etc..

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#128

Post by firethief »

ComodoHacker wrote: post #36
maaaats wrote: post #10

As a kid I always tried to convince my mom to let me play computer games to heat our house during winter. She didn't believe me. But it was probably not the efficiency of the heating that stopped her from letting me game all day, though

Did you tell her that you move you body when you're really engaged and generate additional heat by burning your calories? That might swing the balance to your favor.

Body heat is actually 2-3 orders of magnitude from being cost-effective, unless there's a food source much cheaper than typical lard. Edibility adds quite a premium to calories.

In case anyone is wondering.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#129

Post by wolco »

Jhsto wrote: post #59
nerdponx wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The room temperatures could drop all the way to 16C (60F) during the night That's what you call cold up in the arctic? That's definitely how cold my NYC apartment is every night from November through March. Heat is expensive!

Interesting, I didn't know NYC apartments get so cold! But yeah, maybe it's just me, but I prefer sleeping in a warm (or hot) rooms. Also, it's still actually cold outside. Coldest mornings the year I left my parents apartment were around -40C (-40F). I personally withdraw from going outside by choice after it gets below -30C (-22F). Below that point, I start having random nose bleeds of blood. People from the south…

In Canada schools are stiil open in -40C weather. We only get a few days like that in the south.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#130

Post by agumonkey »

where_do_i_live wrote: post #110

So - I actually physically run 2 mining rigs - each with 6 Nvidia GTX 1070s - pulling 1020 Watts each. They each heat a room fairly nicely and I make around maybe $300 in profit from just selling coins per month. This is AFTER I subtract my electricity costs which for these 2 rigs is about $160 per month. I have not quantified the heating benefits but I'd estimate it at maybe $20 a month. I built them back in March/A…

12 GTX 1070 (500$ avg) + the rest makes for a ~8000$ setup right ? so basically 2 years of 300$ profit from mining to get that money back. Will the profitable mining last longer than that ?
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