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Why Do We Still Commute?

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Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#341

Post by wolco »

ck425 wrote: post #249
lordCarbonFiber wrote: post #230

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I notice many of the biggest proponents of remote work are people with partners and/or a healthy social life. I won't begrudge them that, but, as someone with social anxiety, the structured routine of coming into the office offers a lot of benefits.

Hmm that's an interesting observation. I wonder if the average age at remote companies is higher and if a growing number of remote companies could counter act ageism in tech?

Remote is ideal for senior developers but more difficult for the novice who needs help.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#342

Post by jokoon »

Because both companies and citizens choose better place to work and have a house, at the cost of having to drive every day. The money you don't pay in rent, you pay in gas.

Also because the state and government doesn't plan for such things, so the result is large cities with many offices and spread out houses.

I guess gas money could be saved on a very large scale if the government would try to encourage citizens to switch houses... maybe with some sort of tax break or something...

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#343

Post by dionidium »

EliRivers wrote: post #337
bartedinburgh wrote: post #50

I think it's connected with the rise of bullshit jobs. If your job is well defined, e.g. make an app or a website design, you can do it anywhere in the world. The app/design is your deliverable that anyone can see and judge. If your job is a poorly defined "management" or "product ownership", with no real deliverable, how can your work be judged? Your job turns into convincing other people that your job is useful. Wo…

My other half works in Singapore inspecting and certifying and maintaining ship hulls, and she pretty much has to go to the ship to do it. It seems kind of harsh to call that a bullshit job because she can't do it in the living room. I can think of an awful lot more jobs that are pretty well defined but nonetheless can't be done in someone's living room.

"All bullshit jobs require you to be on site" is a different statement from, "all jobs that require you to be on site are bullshit."

The person you're responding to didn't say what you think they said.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#344

Post by shostack »

dasmoth wrote: post #95
ransom1538 wrote: post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Working remotely requires the participants to be much more communicative because in such a setting communication for the most part doesn't just happen serendipitously, you have to work to make it happen. " Yes. Having managed remote teams and being a remote dev, it's all about response time . If someone slacks you, the response should be as quick as if it were verbal in the office. If it takes 2 hours to get a respo…

I'm going to disagree here. It's entirely possible to work effectively with others via mostly-asynchronous communication. Open source projects, as you point out, can be a pretty good example of this. I'd further argue that for some (I suspect many...) people work much better when they can have long stints of focus without fear of interruptions. Two-minute responses on Slack absolutely is a model that can work, and pe…

I think the main takeaway is that it all comes down to expectations. If the expectation of the team and the communication medium is rapid response (minutes vs. hours/days), and that expectation is not clearly communicated and agreed upon, you're going to have trouble.

Likewise, if everyone knows that due to people's different time zones, schedules, etc. that 24hrs is a typical response window via email, there should be no complaints if responses aren't received more immediately.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#345

Post by wolco »

tetromino_ wrote: post #108
gerardflo wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can have misunderstandings face to face. This is a matter of communication skills. Having entire conversation in text form also means you can easily make references and go back to it even weeks later, whereas with face to face conversation you don't have that luxury.

Face to face means seeing the other person's face. You have instantaneous feedback when their face shows signs of confusion, excitement, boredom, maybe unhappiness at your words. Misunderstandings can be cleared up immediately. Searchable conversation history is certainly extremely useful. But today, that's at the cost of needing to regularly go back and redo text discussions from 5 or 15 minutes ago because it becom…

Remember those requirement we talked about last month? Writing it down or having a log of conversation helps so much. When in person it is harder to take notes and be part of the converdation.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#347

Post by wolco »

scaryclam wrote: post #155
coldtea wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not even sure what that means. They let you write stuff (even with a pen, on a touch capable display) and have others see what you write (and even write/erase themselves). What else is missing? Standing in person before an actual whiteboard? Smelling the marker's ink? Maybe with the advent of cheap VR and smell-o-vision we'll get that too.

The writing part isn't really the main benefit of whiteboarding. Standing there, pointing at things and chatting about it is a really big part. Then there's the physical size. Quite often I find it much nicer to stand in front of a board and draw on a large scale. The current attempts at remote whiteboards are really not suitable replacements. VR would a giant help as body language, gesturing and physical size all be…

For us left handed people it means blocking the board while I write.

You can draw things in different sizes through remote whiteboard, you can add helpful icons and your voice can get louder or quieter for effect.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#348

Post by loco5niner »

dagw wrote: post #307
loco5niner wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The morning walk to the office This is not quite a commute.

That's a remnant from days past when I lived within walking distance of my office. These days I take public transport, but I still get off a few stops early so I can walk ~30 minutes before reaching the office. Even a short while when was driving to work I'd park ~2.5 km from the office. Mainly because I could park for free, but also again so I wouldn't miss out on my morning walk.

That's closer ;-)

Still, sounds more like a daily walk that happens to be to the job than a commute.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#349

Post by Tyrek »

rwmj wrote: post #284
savanaly wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>We commute because businesses can push off the cost of commuting to their employees. This is a severe misunderstanding of the economics of the situation. Employees know that they're going to be spending time commuting, and they take that into account when they decide whether to take a job. In more academic terms-- that information is already informing the labor supply curve of which each individual is a part, and th…

The GP's point is that it's an externality for the company, and therefore they have no incentive to reduce the cost of commuting.

It is not an externality, as an externality is strictly a cost that is borne primarily by parties outside of the transaction. The cost of a commute is external to the Company, but the labor market is two sided (employee/company) and the costs are therefore priced into the transaction appropriately.

Re: Why Do We Still Commute?

#350

Post by jetti »

codingdave wrote: post #81

I worked from home for five years, and just this week started back into a job where I commute to an office. I don't love the commute, but I also don't agree that working from home is a universally better answer for me on a personal level. Everyone knows the benefits of working from home, but there are downsides as well. Fixable downsides, but they exist nonetheless -- it is easy to become a hermit. Easy to over-work.…

>it is easy to become a hermit.

I worked from home full time for about 3 years then moved to a job that had about 1.5 hour commute each way. One of the reasons I took the job was the fact that I did feel like a hermit. I then started to resent the commute. I'm lucky that I have been able to work out a deal with my current employer where I work from home 2 days a week and come in to the office 3 days a week. This gives me a nice break from the commute but I also don't end up feeling like a hermit.

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