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Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

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Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#81

Post by scott_karana »

virtuexru wrote: post #15
acjohnson55 wrote: post #11

Of course, it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation. Then we could use this computation for something that's actually valuable, like protein folding, or something, and still make use of the waste heat.

That "throwaway" computation ensures the integrity & correctness of the blockchain, all while confirming new transactions.

I suspect you're getting downvoted (though not by me) because the hashing computation doesn't directly provide that.

Other proof of work algorithms could concurrently secure the block chain and also provide direct, external benefit. There are some suggestions elsewhere in this thread. :)

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#82

Post by exDM69 »

wlesieutre wrote: post #3

Didn't watch the video, but a quick point on how the energy efficiency of this works out: Electric heaters are 100% efficient at turning electrical energy into heat. All the energy they take in, that's where it goes. Bitcoin mining (and computers in general) are basically in the same boat. There's some ancillary energy use for blowing air around or shining lights or making sound waves, but for the most part the elect…

A coworker of mine mines ETH to heat his house and I am considering that too. I am not sure how much you can save money compared to electric heating when you account for the cost of GPUs, though.

Heat pumps have better energy efficiency than electric heaters but whether that translates to cheaper costs is another thing. Heat pumps are expensive (about $3000 per pump) and they require regular maintenance (a few hundred bucks per pump every few years). They're also big, bulky and noisy and installation requires poking holes in exterior walls.

I have 3 heat pumps and 2 fire places in my house but I still do need a bunch of electric heaters when it gets properly cold. The weather around here is right about freezing this time of year and so far no electric heaters are needed.

But soon it's time to turn on the heat and it's a consideration of money, not energy efficiency.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#83

Post by asciimo »

scott_karana wrote: post #81
virtuexru wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That "throwaway" computation ensures the integrity & correctness of the blockchain, all while confirming new transactions.

I suspect you're getting downvoted (though not by me) because the hashing computation doesn't directly provide that. Other proof of work algorithms could concurrently secure the block chain and also provide direct, external benefit. There are some suggestions elsewhere in this thread. :)

Sorry for this metacomment, but how can you tell if someone is getting downvoted?

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#84

Post by scarlac »

sorenjan wrote: post #80
in_hindsight wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In Siberia power is paying for you! Seriously though in Irkutsk electricity is about 0.017usd per kilowatt/hour

How is it produced though? I'm guessing in large parts by fossil fuel.

In the video they interview the guy who lives next to a hydro plant, so pretty green energy.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#85

Post by simias »

scott_karana wrote: post #79
ArchReaper wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>it would be cool if Bitcoin didn't require throwaway computation Sure, but that's a technology that does not exist. If you can figure out how to create a blockchain-like concept, where the 'proof of work' actually contributes to humanity, you have invented the next big thing. Edit: Reading the comments below me, it looks like this is a space that is being actively explored. Exciting!

Folding and SETI @home existed for more than a decade. I've never understood why nobody mentions them for Proof of work. Maybe the work's not verifiable? http://folding.stanford.edu

Yeah I believe that's the problem, the work needs to be trivially verifiable. You also need to be able to modulate the difficulty easily so that the blockrate remains constant as more people enter the "contest". And of course the work itself must somehow reference the transaction data otherwise you could use the same proof of work for two different blocks.

Seems difficult to find an actually useful mathematical problems that fits all these prerequisites.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#86

Post by _greim_ »

jandrese wrote: post #42
_greim_ wrote: post #31

This reminds me of a story; a buddy of mine during my college days lived in a solitary townhome adjoining a million-watt microwave emitter room. The thing produced enough waste heat to warm the apartment in the dead of winter, even with all the doors and windows open, plus the adjoining warehouse which was several times the volume of the dwelling. I was envious at the time, although now I wonder about the health impl…

He lived in a house like this? https://vignette3.wikia.nocookie.net/simpsons/images/1/18/Th... Your description makes it sound like the most bizarre mixed use building. Townhouse/industrial equipment shed/warehouse is quite the combo. I can't imagine how they classified that for tax purposes or what the land was zoned for. Assuming the actual emitters were high above his head and fairly directional then it probably w…

> He lived in a house like this? ...

Append a giant concrete warehouse to the side and move the tower into the back yard and, yes.

> Your description makes it sound like the most bizarre mixed use building.

Agreed on all points :) I should ask next time I see him about the zoning. I speculate it was some kind of employee/maintenance quarters. His job was to go into the transformer room once per day and make sure the green light was still blinking. (Kidding, not sure what the arrangement was :)

> Assuming the actual emitters were high above his head and fairly directional...

The tower was quite tall, and I was told perfectly safe to climb for most of the height, then suddenly fatal! I understood it to be more or less horizontally omnidirectional. I'm definitely not an expert in the tech. Also I think he could redirect the heat to the outside during warmer months.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#87

Post by simias »

asciimo wrote: post #83
scott_karana wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I suspect you're getting downvoted (though not by me) because the hashing computation doesn't directly provide that. Other proof of work algorithms could concurrently secure the block chain and also provide direct, external benefit. There are some suggestions elsewhere in this thread. :)

Sorry for this metacomment, but how can you tell if someone is getting downvoted?

I assume the comment used to appear grayed, which indicates a negative score.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#88

Post by s73ver_ »

eternalban wrote: post #70
PKop wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny you're getting down-voted. This is quite literally a true statement. Then the only point of contention is whether the benefit of this secure network existing and what it gives the world outweighs the cost of the resources consumed. I believe it is, by a large amount.

It's not "Funny". This forum's intellectual integrity is declining. OP, of course, made a statement of fact.

They made a statement of fact, but it wasn't really relevant to the comment it was replying to.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#89

Post by darkmighty »

SilasX wrote: post #76
wlesieutre wrote: post #3

Didn't watch the video, but a quick point on how the energy efficiency of this works out: Electric heaters are 100% efficient at turning electrical energy into heat. All the energy they take in, that's where it goes. Bitcoin mining (and computers in general) are basically in the same boat. There's some ancillary energy use for blowing air around or shining lights or making sound waves, but for the most part the elect…

>It's not technically a measure of "efficiency", we call this the "coefficient of performance" instead. I have to disagree. At its most general, the concept of efficiency means "desired output achieved per unit of scarce good expended" and can be applied in a variety of contexts: new users per dollar spent on marketing is a measure of your marketing efficiency, treasure value found per hour spent searching is a measu…

> If you expressed the efficiency as "2 joules of heat moved per joule of mains electricity consumed" you eliminate the canceling that would let you phrase the ratio as 200%.

But that's the performance. Efficiency is usually a measure of how good the performance is.

In this case there's a practical reason not to call it efficiency, because there is a well understood maximum performance which is the Carnot limit, so for practical purposes (to avoid confusion) PumpedHeat/Power is called "coefficient of performance"and CarnotLimit/PumpedHeat is called "efficiency", and it has the usual properties that it cannot exceed 100% and it measures how well your system works in a more or less absolute sense.

Re: Bitcoin mining heats homes for free in Siberia [video]

#90

Post by _greim_ »

nerdponx wrote: post #34
_greim_ wrote: post #31

This reminds me of a story; a buddy of mine during my college days lived in a solitary townhome adjoining a million-watt microwave emitter room. The thing produced enough waste heat to warm the apartment in the dead of winter, even with all the doors and windows open, plus the adjoining warehouse which was several times the volume of the dwelling. I was envious at the time, although now I wonder about the health impl…

I wonder what would happen if you heavily shielded the walls, but ran a heat exchanger through. Free baseboard heating?

I think that's essentially what they did. I got to go into the transmitter room and see the 1' diameter copper pipe which I was told carried the radiation out and up to the tower, and which not to approach too closely.
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