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Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

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Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#61
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Major conflicts only happen in non nuclear states. In all honesty I’ll bet that’s what has kept India and Pakistan from a war.

How do you define a major conflict? Iraq seemed pretty big, and so did Afghanistan.

Those didn't happen in nuclear states.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#62

>> without hitting the missile and causing an explosion. >> caused a short circuit that resulted in an explosion. >> Luckily, the cone did not do enough damage to the missile to cause the missile to explode. To clarify: There was absolutely no chance at any point of a nuclear explosion. The article suggests that some big explosion was on the edge of possibility which, given the context, one might think would be a nuc…

> There was absolutely no chance at any point of a nuclear explosion Exactly. Even if the conventional primer went off it's not gonna cause a create the conditions necessary for fission because it wasn't set off by the detonator.

There have been other accidents where multistage fail safes failed at multiple stages. I’d stand back.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#63
post #26
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arms reduction is even more important. I'd rather live in a world where 20 countries have 50 warheads each, then one where two countries have 4,000 warheads each. A weapon detonating by accident is terrible. Thousands of weapons on hair-trigger alert is civilization-ending. It's absolutely insane that we're conditioned to believe that this is not only normal - but the best possible state of affairs.

> I'd rather live in a world where 20 countries have 50 warheads each, then one where two countries have 4,000 warheads each. I absolutely would not. Those 2 countries know far more about the process then those other countries, and they have the budget to do it right. You would have to duplicate labs, and computers, and other efforts 20 times in your scenario, and each of those labs will not be as good as the 2 highe…

> No one will detonate a thousand weapons unless they are declaring total war.

Or if they believe (rightly or wrongly) that the other nuclear power has declared total war. There's been a number of false alarms that have been successfully ignored, but what if one of those false alarms came during the Cuban missile crisis or immediately after the invasion of Afghanistan?

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#64
post #26
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Arms reduction is even more important. I'd rather live in a world where 20 countries have 50 warheads each, then one where two countries have 4,000 warheads each. A weapon detonating by accident is terrible. Thousands of weapons on hair-trigger alert is civilization-ending. It's absolutely insane that we're conditioned to believe that this is not only normal - but the best possible state of affairs.

> I'd rather live in a world where 20 countries have 50 warheads each, then one where two countries have 4,000 warheads each. I absolutely would not. Those 2 countries know far more about the process then those other countries, and they have the budget to do it right. You would have to duplicate labs, and computers, and other efforts 20 times in your scenario, and each of those labs will not be as good as the 2 highe…

> I absolutely would not. Those 2 countries know far more about the process then those other countries, and they have the budget to do it right. You would have to duplicate labs, and computers, and other efforts 20 times in your scenario, and each of those labs will not be as good as the 2 higher funded ones.

If your goal is maintaining an arsenal of world-ending weapons cheaply, sure. I am not trying to optimize for that use case.

> No one will detonate a thousand weapons unless they are declaring total war.

Or they think that the other side declared total war. Or they are engaged in a small-scale conventional war, and are afraid the other side will escalate. Or they are escalating, by using tactical weapons, and the other side retaliates with strategical weapons. (Spoilers: Russia has made it very clear that it will use tactical nuclear weapons, against military targets, in an otherwise conventional conflict.) Or there's an intelligence failure, and they believe that they are the target of a sneak attack.

All of these are incredibly plausible ways for a nuclear war to start.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#65
post #46

“I wasn’t there,” Smith said of the explosion, “but I know there were two technicians who ruined their underwear. 'Cause that ain’t supposed to happen.” Best line of the story. I'm curious how close we've been to nuclear annihilation and we had no idea.

As bad as this story may seem... it's nothing to the Demascus Titan Explosion... that really could have gone off https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1980_Damascus_Titan_missile_ex...

Interesting that both incidents caused by using the wrong tool (screwdriver here, socket there). Such a tiny thing, a hand tool in the wrong place...

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#66
This wasn't really that big a deal. By the Minuteman era, warheads were safe against fires and crashes. Nuclear weapons from several B-52 bombers hit the ground hard in crashes without a nuclear explosion. (Sometimes the implosion charges did go off, but not symmetrically, as is needed to get implosion.) The Minuteman missile itself had a solid fuel engine. This was nowhere near as bad as the incident described in "Command and Control". That one was a liquid-fueled missile with hypergolic propellant.

See Wikipedia's list of nuclear accidents.[1] This wasn't one of the big ones.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_military_nuclear_accid...

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#67

>> without hitting the missile and causing an explosion. >> caused a short circuit that resulted in an explosion. >> Luckily, the cone did not do enough damage to the missile to cause the missile to explode. To clarify: There was absolutely no chance at any point of a nuclear explosion. The article suggests that some big explosion was on the edge of possibility which, given the context, one might think would be a nuc…

Not an aerospace engineer or anything. I think the fear was that the rocket may tip over and collapse under its own weight. I wouldn't be too surprised if that could trigger an ignition of the rocket fuel at the very least, risking nuclear contamination. While the physics package surely has numerous safeties, I'd be concerned that the safeties would be damaged in a way that no one could really predict after falling 8…

Any damage to the warhead would likely make it impossible to have a nuclear reaction. In order to do that, the warhead would have to explode multiple precisely shaped conventional explosives with precise timing. If any one of them was deformed, nothing (apart from the small conventional explosion) would happen, even if all the safeguards incorrectly decided to explode the warhead.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#68
post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Using the nukemap, with a target of Faro: http://nuclearsecrecy.com/nukemap/?&kt=4000&lat=35.5111142&l...

the default there is airburst, but at Faro it would have detonated at the surface which reduces the radius a lot and casualties by a factor of 3, (prolly since less of densely-populated Goldsboro is affected)

But with a surface burst there would have been a fallout plume all the way to Norfolk, VA. The area would be uninhabitable for years, if not decades.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#69

>> without hitting the missile and causing an explosion. >> caused a short circuit that resulted in an explosion. >> Luckily, the cone did not do enough damage to the missile to cause the missile to explode. To clarify: There was absolutely no chance at any point of a nuclear explosion. The article suggests that some big explosion was on the edge of possibility which, given the context, one might think would be a nuc…

> This was also a SOLID fuel rocket.

Oh cool, I was wondering why they didn't just defuel the rocket first thing.

Re: Fifty-three year old nuclear missile accident revealed

#70
post #54

I recently finished Command and Control: Nuclear Weapons, the Damascus Accident, and the Illusion of Safety [0]. I can't recommend the book enough for how eye opening it really is into how blasé we have been with nuclear weapons. We've been reckless and by all accounts it is a miracle we haven't had a serious accident (there have been a few, just not on our own soil). The number of close calls is just astounding. Fur…

Thanks, you just reminded me about this book. Gonna pick it up this weekend!

Lately I have been feeling very anxious about the North Korea situation, but for some reason reading about nuclear accidents, close-calls, stories, etc. calms me in a morbid way.

I guess it has to do with "facing your fears" or something like that.

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