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Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

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Re: Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

#11

Post by merdreubu »

zaro wrote: post #7
abtinf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why we still need communism It is evil to make this comment, whether in earnest or as a joke, for many of the same reasons as if you had said “this is why we still need nazism.” Communism is an ideology responsible for the death of over one hundred million people in the 20th century.

I don't see how you'd equate communism and nazism. But whether they are the same or not how did you come with 100 million deaths for which the communism is responsible? It sounds plain ridiculous.

>I don't see how you'd equate communism and nazism.

They are both abject totalitarian ideologies that produced obscene levels of human suffering.

>how did you come with 100 million deaths for which the communism is responsible

Just add the deaths caused by communist policies (mass-executions, purges, labor camps, collectivization, famine etc).

Re: Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

#12

Post by dilemma »

abtinf wrote: post #4
dilemma wrote: post #3

This is why we still need communism

> This is why we still need communism It is evil to make this comment, whether in earnest or as a joke, for many of the same reasons as if you had said “this is why we still need nazism.” Communism is an ideology responsible for the death of over one hundred million people in the 20th century.

Ok, but the people demanded this comment. It is by far my most popular on HN.

Re: Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

#13

Post by mjburgess »

abtinf wrote: post #9
s_kilk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, thought experiment, what is the death-toll of Capitalism in the last century?

Zero. Capitalism is the system of protecting the rights of the individual to engage in the free exchange of goods and services. The extent of human flourishing is the extent to which human societies adopt capitalism. Even when it is adopted in small degrees, the result is a dramatic uplifting of billions of people out of poverty. Capitalism is good and we would all be better off if we had more of it. All of the mass…

I can't work out if you're trollling or not.

You realise, that "100 million" figure is just taken from the deaths that occurred under Communist regimes, not as a deliberate consequence of their actions.

Also, you're equivocating on Capitalism and Communism with the idea in the former case, and one particular implementation in the latter.

By "Communism" you mean "regimes that called themselves communist". If, more honestly by capitalism you meant, "regimes that called themselves capitalist" then we would start including Vietnam, Iraq, etc. etc. etc.

And you're equivocating on "collectivism" by which you mean the both, say, Mao's agricultural policies and there being groups that have leaders.

Businesses are collectives. Capitalism, as trade between businesses, is a mostly collectivised system.

Humans goals are foundationally composed of all those which follow from their identity: as they conceive themselves as being part of a group, and as they conceive of their identity free of any membership.

This gives rise to nations, businesses, universities, football teams, etc. AND to personal projects, individual enterprise, and so on.

The difference between communism-in-practice and capitalism-in-practice has nothing to do with the existence of groups, but rather the political power structures which surround those groups: all communist regimes were dictatorships.

The difference between capitalism-in-theory and communism-in-theory has, again, nothing to do with the existence of groups -- but what (economic) rights you take to be fundamental.

Re: Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

#14

Post by ivanbakel »

abtinf wrote: post #9
s_kilk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, thought experiment, what is the death-toll of Capitalism in the last century?

Zero. Capitalism is the system of protecting the rights of the individual to engage in the free exchange of goods and services. The extent of human flourishing is the extent to which human societies adopt capitalism. Even when it is adopted in small degrees, the result is a dramatic uplifting of billions of people out of poverty. Capitalism is good and we would all be better off if we had more of it. All of the mass…

>All of the mass death and destruction of the world is caused by collectivism,... the mixed economy of the United States.

The mixed economy is currently the main system preventing mass starvation due to poverty in the US. Capitalism, from the start of the Dustbowl and the Great Depression until the intervention of the government with the New Deal, failed to prevent death and displacement for hundreds of thousands of people despite a severe overproduction of basically every kind of foodstuff, because it simply didn't make anyone any money to do so.

The free exchange of goods produced under holdover ownership from mercantile and colonial times, including the ability to withhold that exchange of necessities, is a moral evil. It is inadmissible to let people starve because it is not profitable to give them food, but that is what capitalist thought mandates.

Re: Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

#15

Post by GVIrish »

abtinf wrote: post #4
dilemma wrote: post #3

This is why we still need communism

> This is why we still need communism It is evil to make this comment, whether in earnest or as a joke, for many of the same reasons as if you had said “this is why we still need nazism.” Communism is an ideology responsible for the death of over one hundred million people in the 20th century.

You're conflating communism and authoritarianism. Nothing about Communism as a concept requires massacring people. It's just that in the 20th century those who were murderous autocrats used Communism to convince their (often poor) countrymen to give them power and they killed people in service of that power.

Communist and Socialist governments were a popular vehicle for getting poor people to join an uprising in the 20th century and despots took advantage of that.

Maybe that's a distinction without a difference given that we've never really seen a non-authoritarian communist government. But communism has only been around for a century, so it's not out of the realm of reason that there'll be a Communist government that isn't brutal at some point. We certainly have somewhat Socialist governments that treat their people well right now.

Re: Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

#16

Post by varjag »

GVIrish wrote: post #15
abtinf wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is why we still need communism It is evil to make this comment, whether in earnest or as a joke, for many of the same reasons as if you had said “this is why we still need nazism.” Communism is an ideology responsible for the death of over one hundred million people in the 20th century.

You're conflating communism and authoritarianism. Nothing about Communism as a concept requires massacring people. It's just that in the 20th century those who were murderous autocrats used Communism to convince their (often poor) countrymen to give them power and they killed people in service of that power. Communist and Socialist governments were a popular vehicle for getting poor people to join an uprising in the…

> Nothing about Communism as a concept requires massacring people.

Elimination of exploiting classes and abolition of family are two things that certainly require massacring people. If you see any other realistic means of achieving these two points of Communist Manifesto, am all ears.

Re: Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

#17

Post by brbrodude »

golergka wrote: post #6
s_kilk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, thought experiment, what is the death-toll of Capitalism in the last century?

I'd say it's in negative billions from all the innovation and economic growth.

If so, then we shall deduct from USSR & China a calculated ammount that came from decades and decades of economic growth they had then, no? It's funny how when praising the status quo some people don't see how they get to ideological mumbling REALLY VERY FAST, yet are the same ones who want to accuse others of 'ideology'(as in "I don't have that, my point of view is objective"). I don't judge tho, getting to understand these matters take a lot of time, 'boring knowledge' like history, investigation and reflecting, I think people should spend more time honestly looking into and trying to understand what this is all about, I bet if you did you'd surprise yourself many times over and see how deep this stuff goes. Facebook-facts based stuff just doesn't do it.

Re: Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

#18

Post by executesorder66 »

abtinf wrote: post #9
s_kilk wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ok, thought experiment, what is the death-toll of Capitalism in the last century?

Zero. Capitalism is the system of protecting the rights of the individual to engage in the free exchange of goods and services. The extent of human flourishing is the extent to which human societies adopt capitalism. Even when it is adopted in small degrees, the result is a dramatic uplifting of billions of people out of poverty. Capitalism is good and we would all be better off if we had more of it. All of the mass…

> Capitalism is the system of protecting the rights of the individual to engage in the free exchange of goods and services.

If they can afford it. Capitalism is actually the system of stealing value from your labour in order to make a profit.

> The extent of human flourishing is the extent to which human societies adopt capitalism.

I guess that explains why two of the world superpowers in recent times are/were communist (USSR, China)

> Even when it is adopted in small degrees, the result is a dramatic uplifting of billions of people out of poverty.

That must explain why China is lifting more people out of poverty than any other country.

> Capitalism is good and we would all be better off if we had more of it.

It's better than fuedalism, but I'd rather live in a society focused on helping each other, than in one focused on exploiting others as much as I can to maximize my capital.

> Collectivism is the ideology that’s holds that your moral sanction for living comes from the group; only the leaders of that group, whether through a connection to god or the tribe, have access to the true nature of the world, and so are justified in any brutality they see fit.

If that's what you think it is, then yeah. That's pretty shitty. But don't you think it's better when people work together and help each other, rather than thinking only of themselves? You sound like someone who drank way to much of the Ayn Rand Cool Aid.

Re: Stack Overflow lays off 20% of staff

#19

Post by cbernini »

dilemma wrote: post #3

This is why we still need communism

I'd say it's Utopia (even though I see what happened in 1917 with good eyes), it would mean the obliteration of a system already too stablished to let it happen (Capitalism), both cannot coexist (or whoever tries it would be casted out just like Cuba was with its socialism).

What we need is having companies aim for more than profit by the end of their fiscal year. As already pointed out here on HN many times, whenever you get VC money, where your business leads is where the money set you to. Product oriented initiatives instead of project oriented ones were a good start, having people own part of it gives them a sense or purpose and let them mature it while maturing themselves. What I really hate about Capitalism is the fact about BigCo or BigVC acquiring SmallCO or pushing it out of business being the standard.

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