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Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

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Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#441

Post by TeMPOraL »

s73ver_ wrote: post #318
vog wrote: post #301

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and the neither the presence of the ads themselves nor my decision to skip them degrades the experience of listening to the podcast I beg to differ. I see the ability to skip ads immediately, at any time, as a fundamental user right (and websites that try to deny this right should be prosecute by consumer protection). In other words, this is not the distinction between good versus bad quality. It is the distinction…

I cannot agree with this sentiment. You're basically demanding that these creators work for you, for free. If you choose to skip the ads, then how should the creators be compensated for the content that you consumed? "With regard to quality, it is a huge jump upwards if a podcast has no ads at all, nowhere, not even hidden or implicit. It is a really noticeable difference if the whole audio simply doesn't care about…

Nobody is entitled to a business model. If ads don't work for your users, find one that does (I hear people have some success with Patronite these days, for example). If there is none, then maybe it isn't good to try to make a business out of it in the first place.

There's way too much "content" these days anyway, and the worst of it is the one that is done to make money (as opposed to labour of love, or having external funding independent of content's performance - like patronage, being considered a "marketing expense", etc.).

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#442

Post by mynewtb »

na85 wrote: post #324
fiddlerwoaroof wrote: post #274

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mining cryptocurrencies while the current tab is in the foreground. (supposing a suitable GPU/ASIC-proof cryptocurrency is available)

What is with the huge percentage of users here that think this sort of thing is okay?

Because the bitcoin bubble has expanded so much and tech people like to think they should all be millionaires now. Greed.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#443

Post by TeMPOraL »

throw2016 wrote: post #337
Thriptic wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But many of the providers of "content" know they have little to provide, so they drag it out in video form, saving the actual information for the last 10% of the video (if ever!) 0:00 - 00:10 Useless video animation 00:10-2:00 "Hey guys welcome to my channel. Make sure to like and subscribe and let me know how I'm doing in the comments. Also make sure to check out [sponsor] and use coupon code [code] for 10% off" 2…

There was always a lot of high quality content on the web, created and shared not with the intent of making money. This still exists but is crowded out by people incentivized to make content to monetize it ie the old publishing model. This now makes up the bulk of 'content' and is heavily monetized and driven by monetization where the 'content creators' have a more intimate relationship with advertisers and platforms…

This is what the bulk of Meditations on Moloch[0] is about - under competitive pressure, if you can forgo a value in order to get ahead, you outcompete those not willing to do so. Iterate over it, and you can see how competition gradually throws all values under the bus, until all that remains is the money-making core.

(I like to sometimes phrase it as "the market optimizes for creating the most useless thing that you can still trick people into buying".)

--

[0] - http://slatestarcodex.com/2014/07/30/meditations-on-moloch/

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#444

Post by mynewtb »

bloaf wrote: post #361
hehheh wrote: post #357

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a lot of folks here on HN and around the web that are upset at Google's AMP cache system, and somewhat rightly so. But at least it is an attempt to make mobile internet less hostile -- at least less in-your-face hostile.

No. I am talking about the physical experience of looking at text on a cell phone screen.

I find it much more enjoyable than looking at a monitor on my desk.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#445

Post by TeMPOraL »

DeusExMachina wrote: post #178
lotsofpulp wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's easier to make money from videos than from text, and that's why websites would prefer that. There's not much else to it.

Maybe it’s easier to make money from videos because they people actually like them?

Remember that in advertising, they scam each other as much as they scam their users. Videos may or may not be actually more effective, but that's irrelevant if they can be spun as more effective to those who pay for the ads.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#446

Post by zdkl »

TeMPOraL wrote: post #437
zdkl wrote: post #411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes the inefficiency in mining coins and the hefty fees impact the game theoretic value of this method but it doesn't mean there is no value in that form of compensation. If the choice is between a barren wasteland of providers removing useful content from open access or waiting on 1% of users to subsidise the rest or giving the option to users to pay while they're accessing content, I'll take some form of choice to…

The inefficiency makes it too unprofitable to even bother with it for small actors. What am I going to do with the fraction of a fraction of a cent my homepage mines over one year?

I may be in a minority, but I believe the incentives of this method are "better" for the spirit of the open web, and I for one am prepared for the low revenue if it means this ideology may perdure.

The motivation is not to use *coins for their own sake, but that the alternative is getting scarier everyday.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#447

Post by zdkl »

Veen wrote: post #431
zdkl wrote: post #409

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't like this stereotyped answer but isn't this what "move fast and break things" was supposed to be about? Why did we become afraid to diverge from the norm and trends on the internet? From a consumer standpoint, uniformisation makes content parsing easier in the sense that you know what to expect and how to compare content more readily but why do people not go on a limb and take more "risk" in differentiating c…

> Why did we become afraid to diverge from the norm and trends on the internet? Because “we” wanted to get rich, or at least make a living.

Well we can't all make a living as authors or librarians. Ads supported this delusion for a while but historically most people trying to live from their creativity/written work (or modernly, video work) have actually starved to death.

If you're in it to get rich or to mke a living exclusively from your art, you better be good enough rather than expecting a sense of duty from your public to subsidise your effort.

Not to say one shouldn't be incentivised to be creative, but just that I do not agree that wanting to make a living makes ads or extracting value from your public by all means ok.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#448

Post by TeMPOraL »

zdkl wrote: post #446
TeMPOraL wrote: post #437

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The inefficiency makes it too unprofitable to even bother with it for small actors. What am I going to do with the fraction of a fraction of a cent my homepage mines over one year?

I may be in a minority, but I believe the incentives of this method are "better" for the spirit of the open web, and I for one am prepared for the low revenue if it means this ideology may perdure. The motivation is not to use *coins for their own sake, but that the alternative is getting scarier everyday.

Yeah, the incentives are better, to be sure. Personally, I just don't like the implementation. I see current cryptocurrencies as a huge and completely unnecessary waste of energy. I don't like waste, but the concept of paying with computational resources isn't bad per se, IMO, and definitely better than paying with my attention (and then again with the data the site collected on me).

[0] - in the days of energy crisis, when we can't even switch to safer sources fast enough not to risk cooking ourselves on this planet.

Re: Against an Increasingly User-Hostile Web

#450

Post by cyphunk »

Stop referencing Cambridge Analytica. They grossly overstated their results with intent. Everyone seems to have taken the headlines produced from their first post-US-election presentation as truth, without even bothering to watch that presentation. Because when doing so even the most forgiving would get a sense of screaming suspicion. They brag about taking one Republican candidate (Ted Cruz) from the bottom of 20 candidates to... #3 in the Republican party primary. And then the logic of the headlines continue on to claim that this means with 300 likes they can predict you better than you mother. Candidate #3? I promise you there were as many data analytic companies as there were candidates but the difference is that only Cambridge Analytica came up with the clever marketing pitches to promote their strategy and only they had the guts to promote that strategy even though their pony lost the race. And it shouldn't surprise anyone because good marketing strategy, not good data, lead to such sensational headlines. Cambridge Analytica should be treated with the suspicion provided to all marketing firms, because it is clear when looking closely that this is what they are, and one with a rather shady history full of scams at that:

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-03-23/trump-dat...

https://hn.algolia.com/?query=cambridge%20analytica&sort=byP...

Stop referencing Cambridge Analytica. The headlines that their marketing produced just happen to fit so nicely in the techno-evil horror fluff stories we all as liberal leftists (myself included) so desperately want to eat. But find better references, please!

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