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A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

lkml.iu.edu

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Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#381

Post by ForHackernews »

xelxebar wrote: post #366
ForHackernews wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firing somebody for lousy performance & making excuses is an entirely correct and professional response. Berating and profanely insulting them is not.

That sounds like a horrendously selfish attitude. The problem was fixed; nobody was harmed; lessons were learned. The sum total of effect of this "Linus tirade" seems overwhelmingly positive. But just because he didn't conform to your arbitrary standards, you write him off? Linus is more humanist in this case than your policy apparently allows.

You have no idea who was harmed. Treating other human beings with this kind of flagrant disrespect is childish and unprofessional. It's ridiculous how many people are making excuses for his behavior here.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#382

Post by AnthonBerg »

forapurpose wrote: post #377
forgottenpass wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a cliche hacker news comment that adds nothing to the conversation: - Speaks in platitudes about the topic in a way that shows a thin understanding of the context and only sounds smart to people that also aren't familiar with the context. - Armchair psychiatry used to advance a moralizing message. - All over the place while deep in a comment thread, seemingly more interested in hearing themselves talk than carry…

As the author of the comment in question, I think some of parent comment is fair criticism - that my comment is general and too superficial, without a strong basis in fact and it doesn't contribute much hard knowledge; it's all analysis. Also, it's long. I considered those things myself before I posted it. However, I didn't see how to overcome them; some issues don't lend themselves to strong factual bases, and some…

Just to make sure: I found it insightful, valuable, refreshing, and the right length.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#383

Post by ForHackernews »

xelxebar wrote: post #366
ForHackernews wrote: post #284

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Firing somebody for lousy performance & making excuses is an entirely correct and professional response. Berating and profanely insulting them is not.

That sounds like a horrendously selfish attitude. The problem was fixed; nobody was harmed; lessons were learned. The sum total of effect of this "Linus tirade" seems overwhelmingly positive. But just because he didn't conform to your arbitrary standards, you write him off? Linus is more humanist in this case than your policy apparently allows.

As an experiment, let's see if this comment gets flagged...

You stupid, mouthbreathing motherfucker. How can you sit there and say "nobody was harmed"? I was harmed by having to read that word-vomit, and I've been further harmed having to respond to your boundless idiocy. You have no idea how many people have been put off working on open source projects because they'd rather contribute nothing than have to interact with human shitstains like yourself or Linus.

How's this for a positive comment? Jesus Christ I hope I never have to work alongside a worthless rat bastard like you. Your family should be ashamed to have raised such a sack of shit.

[Look how clear and direct I've been! Isn't it great!]

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#384

Post by grzm »

ForHackernews wrote: post #383
xelxebar wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a horrendously selfish attitude. The problem was fixed; nobody was harmed; lessons were learned. The sum total of effect of this "Linus tirade" seems overwhelmingly positive. But just because he didn't conform to your arbitrary standards, you write him off? Linus is more humanist in this case than your policy apparently allows.

As an experiment, let's see if this comment gets flagged... You stupid, mouthbreathing motherfucker. How can you sit there and say "nobody was harmed"? I was harmed by having to read that word-vomit, and I've been further harmed having to respond to your boundless idiocy. You have no idea how many people have been put off working on open source projects because they'd rather contribute nothing than have to interact w…

What is the point of your experiment? Insults like this are routinely flagged on HN. If it weren't, I suspect it would only be because it hadn't been seen by enough members or the mods.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#385

Post by _jal »

bonzini wrote: post #355
_jal wrote: post #321

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Eh? The version number changed. MSFT just changed to something not completely predictable in advance. Or am I missing your point?

They _had_ to change it to "10" because there was existing code in the wild that misbehaved for a hypothetical Windows 9.

I still don't get it; either I'm remarkably dense today, or there's a disconnect. I wrote:

> anyone who expects it not to change

And you appear to be using an example of a version-change curiosity as a counterexample. It is not a counterexample, because the version number in question changed from 8 to 10. In my original formulation, anyone who claimed to worry that the number would stay 8 forever was being an idiot or being obtuse.

I think that holds up. It was not part of my comment, but someone who expected it to be 9 would not be an idiot or obtuse, because that would have been a reasonable guess, absent additional information. They were expecting it to change but were surprised by an exceptional circumstance.

But this is getting a bit silly; there may be someone out there who thinks version numbers should be immutable across versions, but I bet they're pretty lonely. It was an example picked up while making a wider point.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#386

Post by ForHackernews »

grzm wrote: post #384
ForHackernews wrote: post #383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an experiment, let's see if this comment gets flagged... You stupid, mouthbreathing motherfucker. How can you sit there and say "nobody was harmed"? I was harmed by having to read that word-vomit, and I've been further harmed having to respond to your boundless idiocy. You have no idea how many people have been put off working on open source projects because they'd rather contribute nothing than have to interact w…

What is the point of your experiment? Insults like this are routinely flagged on HN. If it weren't, I suspect it would only be because it hadn't been seen by enough members or the mods.

My point is that tons of people in this thread seem to think this style of communication is really great because it's emphatic and gets the point across clearly or something.

I'm trying to highlight that maybe it's not so great if you're on the receiving end of it.

I'm sure a bunch of hypocrites will flag me down, though.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#387

Post by grzm »

ForHackernews wrote: post #386
grzm wrote: post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is the point of your experiment? Insults like this are routinely flagged on HN. If it weren't, I suspect it would only be because it hadn't been seen by enough members or the mods.

My point is that tons of people in this thread seem to think this style of communication is really great because it's emphatic and gets the point across clearly or something. I'm trying to highlight that maybe it's not so great if you're on the receiving end of it. I'm sure a bunch of hypocrites will flag me down, though.

I've noticed others mention that it's context dependent: what's acceptable in some communities is not acceptable in others. Your comment, if meant in earnest, while it may be acceptable when uttered by Linus on the kernel mailing list (I'm extrapolating here based on the few comments I've perused in this thread), is not acceptable on HN. Given the different conditions, I don't think it would produce anything meaningful, whether it gets flagged or not. And given that you've prefaced it with "As an experiment, let's see if this comment gets flagged...", I suspect some that would otherwise flag it won't because it's clear it's not meant in earnest.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#388

Post by caf »

curveship wrote: post #181
magnetic wrote: post #137

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bug they fix is the bug that keeps the API contract intact. The first application gets its bug fixed, and the second application breaks because it was relying on a bug that didn't match the API contract. You program to an API, not to an implementation. The second application did the latter, and will therefore pay the price.

That's not Linus' position. The "API contract" for the kernel is "we don't break userspace code," not "we don't break userspace code that follows the specs." He would bounce (and flame) the fix you're suggesting.

In other words, the ABI you have is the ABI that got used, not the ABI you thought you were building.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#389

Post by xelxebar »

ForHackernews wrote: post #383
xelxebar wrote: post #366

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That sounds like a horrendously selfish attitude. The problem was fixed; nobody was harmed; lessons were learned. The sum total of effect of this "Linus tirade" seems overwhelmingly positive. But just because he didn't conform to your arbitrary standards, you write him off? Linus is more humanist in this case than your policy apparently allows.

As an experiment, let's see if this comment gets flagged... You stupid, mouthbreathing motherfucker. How can you sit there and say "nobody was harmed"? I was harmed by having to read that word-vomit, and I've been further harmed having to respond to your boundless idiocy. You have no idea how many people have been put off working on open source projects because they'd rather contribute nothing than have to interact w…

Actually, it's good you present this.

A major difference between your comment here and Linus' rant is that Linus didn't deliver personal attacks. Notice how all his vitriol is aimed at the code and not the person:

"Stop gthis (sic) fcking idiocy", not "You are an idiot"

"You trying to shift regressions somewhere else is bogus SHT", not "You are bogus sh*t"

Your comment on the other hand is mainly full of empty name-calling. Besides the fact that it accomplishes nothing, it's a personal attack instead of a clear message that "XYZ behaviour is Bad!"

That said, you are indeed indirectly evidencing that a good many people have trouble seeing a difference.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#390

Post by vidoc »

andyjohnson0 wrote: post #211
vidoc wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> [1] I'm aware that use of profanity in everyday speech is common in Finland. I don't mind swearing per se, but I find its over-use a bit tedious. Actually what you are unaware of, might be that the use of profanity in everyday speech is actually very common pretty much anywhere in the world other than in the US&A where mince words and puritanism are still king.

I'm not unaware of that. I'm from the UK, where we can be fairly fairly crude when the opportunity presents itself.

I'm embarrassed at myself as I now realize how I surrendered to textbook assumption on an internet thread. Sincere apologies for that!
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