Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

lkml.iu.edu

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

191–200 of 408 posts

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#191

Post by majewsky »

lightedman wrote: post #172
bjourne wrote: post #42

John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.

"Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean." Absolute shame he doesn't even know the basic definition of 'regression' and uses the word incorrectly in every way. Breaking shit is simply breaking shit. It's not a regression unless something was broken first, then fixed, then the SAME ISSUE comes back in a later code change.

Different people have different definitions of things all the time, and yet we get on with our lives.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#192

Post by TallGuyShort »

jordigh wrote: post #152
bjourne wrote: post #42

John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.

> John Johansen will survive. We really need to stop excusing Linus's behaviour. Just because we may happen to agree with what he is saying doesn't mean we also have to agree with how he is saying it.

He has previously been unnecessarily insulting, which I don't excuse, but in this case someone caused a problem, and after 3 weeks still does not understand how serious a problem it is. He's addressing it bluntly because that is what is required. He's not being unreasonable.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#193

Post by goialoq »

lightedman wrote: post #172
bjourne wrote: post #42

John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.

"Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean." Absolute shame he doesn't even know the basic definition of 'regression' and uses the word incorrectly in every way. Breaking shit is simply breaking shit. It's not a regression unless something was broken first, then fixed, then the SAME ISSUE comes back in a later code change.

You've posted your incorrect interpretation of 'regression' twice. Please stop. Breaking something that used to work is a regression.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#194

Post by mikeash »

majewsky wrote: post #150
mikeash wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Python 3 is a similar language with a similar name to Python 2. It shouldn’t be considered an update, nor applied as one.

Yet a huge number of Python modules are both valid Python 2 code and Python 3 code.

Sure, they're similar enough that a single file can be valid in both with less effort than most language pairs. That doesn't mean it's an update, any more than C is an upgrade to Lisp because I can make a file that's valid in both.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#195

Post by murkle »

lightedman wrote: post #172
bjourne wrote: post #42

John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.

"Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean." Absolute shame he doesn't even know the basic definition of 'regression' and uses the word incorrectly in every way. Breaking shit is simply breaking shit. It's not a regression unless something was broken first, then fixed, then the SAME ISSUE comes back in a later code change.

nope, that would be a re-regression :)

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#196

Post by goialoq »

sytse wrote: post #126
bjourne wrote: post #42

John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.

Great links. To make Linus his live easier I've made a website on http://www.firstruleofkerneldevelopment.com/ with those links so he can just reply with: "See www.firstruleofkerneldevelopment.com" instead of posting a rant.

Was there a "first rule" before the 2012 rant, or was it invented in that email thread?

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#197

Post by ryanx435 »

lightedman wrote: post #180
kadenshep wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree with how he's saying it. He's being honest. He's letting you know where he stands and what the rule is, without any kind of hidden message or room for interpretation. The other guy? Not being so honest.

He's being stupid, using words he doesn't understand (He already failed in the usage of the word 'regression.') He's throwing a childish tantrum and THAT is the primary reason I won't touch Linux (well that and I can hardlock any Linux system by making a 4kb encrypted RAMDisk, and it's been left unfixed for years, allowing me to find dozens of nice memory issues, [especially with the buffer cache,] and most of these…

I'm willing to bet my entire life savings that Linus understands the meaning of the word regression in this context better than you.

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#198

Post by alien_at_work »

jordigh wrote: post #152
bjourne wrote: post #42

John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.

> John Johansen will survive. We really need to stop excusing Linus's behaviour. Just because we may happen to agree with what he is saying doesn't mean we also have to agree with how he is saying it.

No, what we need to do is stop listening to fragile cry babies. If you ever work for a real company with real deadlines you'll get a lot worse than what he gave.

And he only responded this way after 3 weeks of unacceptable behavior. If he blew up out of nowhere after the very first report of a potential problem before it was even confirmed, that would be a different story (though that's something that probably happens in real companies every day).

Re: A regression is the kernel not giving the same result with the same user space

#199

Post by adamc »

jordigh wrote: post #152
bjourne wrote: post #42

John Johansen will survive. Linus has made it incredibly damn clear what "no user space regressions ever" mean. See f.e the similar rant from 2012: https://lkml.org/lkml/2012/12/23/75 And it is his kernel so it is his rules. John Johansen admitted he messed up ( http://lkml.iu.edu/hypermail/linux/kernel/1710.3/02539.html ) and promised to handle things better in the future so all is well.

> John Johansen will survive. We really need to stop excusing Linus's behaviour. Just because we may happen to agree with what he is saying doesn't mean we also have to agree with how he is saying it.

I've seen messages where I thought he went over the top (personal attacks), but this seemed mostly focused on the issue at hand -- didn't bother me. (Not that it would matter if it did.)
Post reply on HN