Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions. • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#191

Post by smcl » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 10:49 AM UTC

statictype wrote: post #154

mmphosis wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that Gate's work of software and philanthropy has been both beneficial and detrimental. Call me a sick kid, but I would deeply question some of the so-called "philanthropy" of the Gates Foundation. http://www.lavidalocavore.org/diary/3059/gates-foundation-mo... Stallman has given us GCC which is free in the many senses of the word free. The Microsoft C compiler has been good too, but it comes with strings att…

The Microsoft C compiler has been good too, but it comes with strings attached, just like vaccinations and bio-tech. What are these strings?

Before you can sit down and use VC++ you need to have already shelled out money for a windows license.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#192

Post by tjr » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 11:07 AM UTC

celoyd wrote: post #164

Jach wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't consider myself a hardcore hacker, but I certainly enjoy the GNU (along with Tux) far more than a frikkin Window or an Apple. Changing the name/logo would be a step in the wrong direction. I wasn't aware that GNU tools had a marketing problem, since they're all over the place, even in business worlds. Leave the marketing to the distros and programmer employees.

I’m not saying GNU should brand itself differently. But if it’s going to change the logo to look less homely (in either sense), I think it could go a lot further than that version.

The picture I linked to isn't a GNU Project rebranding effort... I just liked what Duane had drawn, and thought it was an opportune moment to share.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#193

Post by cschwarm » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 11:27 AM UTC

loup-vaillant wrote: post #187

rimantas wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downmoded you. Mainly because I see no freedom in Stallman's vision and phrases like "shiny toys" and "lock yourself" rub me the wrong way. I want my freedom to use whatever I choose: open source, proprietary, free, paid, whatever, without some RMS telling me what to do. And I see more freedom in MIT/BSD than in GPL.

> I want my freedom to use whatever I choose: […] proprietary, […] whatever, […] So you want the freedom to lose your freedom, for a short term benefit. Make no mistake: you are not as free to stop using that proprietary software as you might think. Most proprietary software strongly encourage you to stick with them, and make switching difficult. The best examples I have in mind are operating systems and office suite…

Slave owners universally don't want to be slaves, thus it's immoral. Buyers and sellers of proprietary software don't have no problem buying and selling proprietary software from others, thus it's NOT immoral.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#194

Post by sid0 » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 11:56 AM UTC

_pi wrote: post #160

mattmanser wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is an extremely naive diatribe. There are few OSS projects that have done anything more than steal ideas from commercial software in terms of innovation. Programming languages are the only place I can think of that OSS is cutting edge. MS pushed the boundaries of software to the extreme. Go look at any of their competitors at the age of their dominance. Man, look at Netscape navigator in its bloated unusable for…

>There are few OSS projects that have done anything more than steal ideas from commercial software in terms of innovation. Programming languages are the only place I can think of that OSS is cutting edge. Surely you're joking? Outlook is a crappy email client. Mutt which is older than I am, handles mail better than Outlook does, I hate using Outlook. It means archiving my mail every month (several accounts over sever…

> Linux in the kernel level has removed the need for file polling, replacing it with iwatch

As long as we're comparing who did what first (as if that's relevant today), ReadDirectoryChangesW came in Windows 2000. inotify came in 2005.

> MS to this day hasn't standardized it's own security structure (EX: runas.exe in XP will have the processes pass on administrator rights to all child processes 7 doesn't neither does Vista)

Given that Vista overall has a rather different security structure from XP, I don't see how this is relevant.

> And lets face it on the top of it's game Windows default security could have been over-riden by pressing cancel on the logon screen

Amusingly, this just displays your own naivete. The only way to get security if someone has physical access is through cryptography. Pressing cancel on a local login screen is equivalent to booting into single user mode or just using a boot disk and wiping out the local administrator's password.

> You seem to equate success and innovation with sales and press releases.

Microsoft Research is the most prolific non-university academic CS research lab in the world. The people that work there are all truly brilliant. (disclosure: I did an internship there this summer)

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#195

Post by adulau » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 12:01 PM UTC

gaius wrote: post #7

I decided that I would rather do something good with no monetary reward than profit by mistreating people A $1M grant from the MacArthur foundation and another $1M from the Takeda foundation tends to skew one's view of economics somewhat.

He got a genius grant ($240,000) from MacArthur foundation and the grant from Takeda was $830,000.

[1] http://tech.mit.edu/V121/N59/59stallman.59n.html

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#196

Post by rbanffy » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 12:27 PM UTC

rimantas wrote: post #180

rbanffy wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And that's why the GPL (and its derivatives/workalikes) is important - because it prevents any company or individual from taking away the freedoms of the users downstream.

Not all projects I mentioned are under GPL and some chose non-GPL license specifically to give more freedom than GPL and likes allow.

Like I said, the only added freedom you enjoy by having MIT/BSD-ish rather than GPL is the freedom to remove freedoms downstream. And the ones that are not GPL are so precisely because the vendor wants to be able to remove freedoms downstream should the need or opportunity arise.

Are you aware of any other freedom I don't know about?

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#197

Post by rimantas » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 12:37 PM UTC

loup-vaillant wrote: post #187

rimantas wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I downmoded you. Mainly because I see no freedom in Stallman's vision and phrases like "shiny toys" and "lock yourself" rub me the wrong way. I want my freedom to use whatever I choose: open source, proprietary, free, paid, whatever, without some RMS telling me what to do. And I see more freedom in MIT/BSD than in GPL.

> I want my freedom to use whatever I choose: […] proprietary, […] whatever, […] So you want the freedom to lose your freedom, for a short term benefit. Make no mistake: you are not as free to stop using that proprietary software as you might think. Most proprietary software strongly encourage you to stick with them, and make switching difficult. The best examples I have in mind are operating systems and office suite…

  Most proprietary software strongly encourage you to stick
  with them, and make switching difficult. The best examples
  I have in mind are operating systems and office suites.

I don't have such experience. There was a time I was juggling Windows and Linux at work using OS X at home. Now I mostly deal with OS X and Linux on servers. Neither did I have a problem with office suites. I am MS Office free, OpenOffice free. If someone sends me some .doc or .xls occasionally I can usually view them on OS X without any problems. How exactly Windows are supposed to make switching to say Linux more difficult than from Linux to OS X? I give away no freedoms by using whatever software I want.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#198

Post by ZeroGravitas » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 12:42 PM UTC

cschwarm wrote: post #193

loup-vaillant wrote: post #187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I want my freedom to use whatever I choose: […] proprietary, […] whatever, […] So you want the freedom to lose your freedom, for a short term benefit. Make no mistake: you are not as free to stop using that proprietary software as you might think. Most proprietary software strongly encourage you to stick with them, and make switching difficult. The best examples I have in mind are operating systems and office suite…

Slave owners universally don't want to be slaves, thus it's immoral. Buyers and sellers of proprietary software don't have no problem buying and selling proprietary software from others, thus it's NOT immoral.

There's plenty of examples of proprietary software vendors doing their best to avoid lock-in from other proprietary software vendors, while doing the same to their own customers. Apple vs Adobe on the iPhone flash issue for example, where Apple proposed open standards and developing directly for iPhone as the two permitted options.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#199

Post by rimantas » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 12:58 PM UTC

rbanffy wrote: post #196

rimantas wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not all projects I mentioned are under GPL and some chose non-GPL license specifically to give more freedom than GPL and likes allow.

Like I said, the only added freedom you enjoy by having MIT/BSD-ish rather than GPL is the freedom to remove freedoms downstream. And the ones that are not GPL are so precisely because the vendor wants to be able to remove freedoms downstream should the need or opportunity arise. Are you aware of any other freedom I don't know about?

Yes. To allow "downstream" to do whatever they want with a piece of code I gave them being free from my command what to do.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#200

Post by rbanffy » Fri, Jul 30, 2010, 1:00 PM UTC

bandushrew wrote: post #188

rbanffy wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Indeed. I have no doubt people like Jobs, Gates, Ballmer and Ellison (among many others) oppose the freedom ideals Stallman stands for. Still, I think they rely (willingly or not) on the casual user and its disregard/unawareness of the freedoms they thrown away to reach their goals. Without uninformed users, they are harmless. Tools will be developed and willing users will free themselves from their power.

I dont know whether they 'oppose' the software ideals that stallman stands for or not. I agree very strongly with Stallman and the points he regularly makes regarding the dangerous of proprietary software, and I am very grateful for the things he has done to push his ideals and to increase awareness of the issues and dangers surrounding copyright abuse and the freedom of software users. I also create and sell proprie…

> I disagree with him that it is immoral to do so

Agreed. I won't go as far as he does, but I thank him for making a stand. As far as the user makes an informed choice, I am not against selling proprietary software. Still, God kills a kitten every time a proprietary license is sold.