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Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

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Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#141

Post by rodgerd »

btian wrote: post #18
williamscales wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"key elements" of the battery module assembly had to be taken over and redesigned, Musk says. Tesla seems to be taking the opposite approach to Apple here. In my observation, Apple drives its suppliers extremely hard to achieve the quality it requires. Tesla, on the other hand, is too eager to bring any sundry part in house (e.g. car seats). Apple's approach appears to work in that it pushes suppliers to do what's ne…

Then how do you explain Apple making their own SoC?

They don't make their own chips, though, do they? Or screens, or whatnot. Making their own SoC is like Tesla making their own drivetrain, not like making their own seats.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#142

Post by hwillis »

sushisource wrote: post #116
Tiktaalik wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The Bolt is a sort of unsexy compact hatchback so I can see it being unappealing to some groups of people even though from all accounts it's a fantastic product that matches the Model 3 in quality. Tesla should be concerned if GM expands their market by taking their Bolt technology and rapidly expanding into vehicle lines that appeal to other groups, such as a Bolt crossover or sexy Bolt hot hatch. Personally the Bol…

Give me a bolt coupe and I'm sold in a heartbeat. Or this thing: https://www.wired.com/story/crazy-cute-concept-cars-from-the...

A mini countryman is already over 5" longer than a Bolt- there isn't much more coupe to go.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#143

Post by rrhd »

colordrops wrote: post #61
dogruck wrote: post #4

As an engineer who has zero investment in Tesla, I truly hope they overcome this setback. Simultaneously, I know from experience that failure is a real possibility. At this point, it’s nice to have the additional transparancy into the current production bottleneck.

What would failure look like? Worst case outcome to me seems that they would just take longer to get to their goals rather than not achieve them at all. They have enough money in the bank and no unsolved technical issues - it's not black hole physics. I mean they've delivered cars already. They just are slower than expected at scaling up.

They are still smaller than the competition. They can't really afford to be slower as well. They need to show they can get the Model 3 out and that it's a real success.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#144

Post by rrhd »

jungturk wrote: post #89
dogruck wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Failure looks like bankruptcy. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bankruptcy_in_the_United_State... If you don’t think it’s possible, then I suggest putting all of your available assets into their equity.

With a declared mission to "accelerate the advent of sustainable transport", I'm not sure a bankruptcy would constitute failure at this point. The momentum Tesla's created toward electric cars may be sufficient that mass-market producers can take it from here.

Of course it would.

but I'm sure Elon could spin it.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#145

Post by kbenson »

lyk wrote: post #132
kbenson wrote: post #126

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't want to be that guy, but there are specific Unicode characters for opening and closing quotes now, so we don't need to deal with the weird usage imposed by limited typesets anymore.[1] For some reason, the two separate backtick characters are really bugging me visually. That's all I wanted to say. Thanks in advance for bearing gracefully with my nitpicking, letting me express that makes me feel better. 1: htt…

That's a LaTeX habit for a lot of people, chill out.

Using backticks seems like an anti-pattern to me, where you want to be correct, but are only going half-way. If you want to be correct, you can use the Unicode characters that specifically denote beginning and ending quotations, in both single and double tick versions. If you don't care about being correct, just using the default ASCII single or double quote suffices. I wasn't sure why someone would purposefully use backticks in that way in what appears to be an attempt to accurately express themselves, and not appreciate the knowledge that there is a more correct way to do so.

That it's a LaTeX habit does provide an explanation, but then the information that there may be a better way when using Unicode might also be appreciated for someone that does not know. I would appreciate being informed of that if I wasn't aware.

In any case, I tried to be informative and relay that it was my own problem that compelled me to reply, but I wasn't aware I was being excitable enough to need to "chill out". I tried to word it in a way to avoid people thinking I was getting worked up, and show that I just felt compelled to contribute. Unfortunately that didn't seem to come across.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#146

Post by hwillis »

dzhiurgis wrote: post #133
hwillis wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> What is the main practical selling point of a model 3 over, say, a leaf? Much better value, larger size, better fuel economy, more conventional, more power, more range, and superchargers. Cost per mile of range: $200 for the 2018 leaf, 132 for the Model 3. 147 hp vs 258 hp, 10" of extra length and 6" of extra width, over twice the range at less than half the capacity. The Tesla is way superior to any other electric…

Leaf is powered by a 24 kWh battery, so definitely not 'twice the range for half capacity'.

Fumbled that, meant to say "Over twice the range at less than twice the capacity"- ie it's more efficient per kWh despite being larger. Unfortunately I can't edit any more.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#147

Post by zzzzzzzza »

crush-n-spread wrote: post #129
antiviral wrote: post #125

So this is the real reason that they had those 'performance-based' layoffs. If you need to fire a certain number of employees, just give bad performance evaluations to those people and fire 'for cause.' As a company, Tesla can use whatever nonsensical management techniques they want. But firing people 'for cause' will unreasonably hurt otherwise productive people in their future careers. And it will make future candi…

I listened to the whole earnings call that just happened, Elon said they had laid of 2% of their work force which is much low than industry standard for yearly layoffs. Elon quoted GE which lays of the bottom 10% of their staff every year. It's not that bad.

GE had that policy for management (not the whole company), for a limited time.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#148

Post by aquadrop »

selectodude wrote: post #68
colordrops wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What would failure look like? Worst case outcome to me seems that they would just take longer to get to their goals rather than not achieve them at all. They have enough money in the bank and no unsolved technical issues - it's not black hole physics. I mean they've delivered cars already. They just are slower than expected at scaling up.

Their burn rate is incredible. If they run out of money and nobody is there to give them more, they file for bankruptcy.

They burn it that fast because it brings more money in the future and they have funds reserve. Their net loss is getting smaller proportionally to the revenue constantly. They could stop capital investments any moment and be profitable, but that would mean much slower growth later.

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#149

Post by throwanem »

kbenson wrote: post #126
chollida1 wrote: post #3

Since this came out as part of the Tesla earnings, here's my recap from their earnings release and call.... - Tesla will be late getting up to 5,000 units a week of Model 3. It will happen at the end of Q1 instead of the end of this year. The bottleneck is batteries. - Some lines are at only 500 cars a week. Namely the battery pack assembly, body shop welding and final vehicle assembly. - The $2.92 a share loss was m…

I don't want to be that guy, but there are specific Unicode characters for opening and closing quotes now, so we don't need to deal with the weird usage imposed by limited typesets anymore.[1] For some reason, the two separate backtick characters are really bugging me visually. That's all I wanted to say. Thanks in advance for bearing gracefully with my nitpicking, letting me express that makes me feel better. 1: htt…

"I don't want to be that guy," says that guy, and promptly proceeds within the very same breath to be that guy just as hard as he can possibly find a way to be.

Have you considered not being that guy?

Re: Tesla posts big loss, cuts production of Models X and S to catch up on Model 3

#150

Post by aquadrop »

pwinnski wrote: post #2

The first two zones of a four-zone process to produce battery packs are being completely reworked, and this is something they only found out about after they were already failing to deliver on promised production goals? I've mis-estimated a lot of things in my career, so I'm trying to be sympathetic, but it seems like someone with production line experience should have been able to test individual parts of the produc…

Musk didn't promise those goals, it's what they hoped for. Best case scenario.
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