Earlier quoted context omitted.
Honestly, I can see that being the perception, but frankly, I put a lot more people into the alt-right category. In this case, Richard Spencer is the alt-right of the alt-right. The vast majority of Trump voters have or had no clue who he was. Spencer gains from Trump, and encourages everything he can to move to the right, and is gains the most from notoriety that the media gives him in connection to Trump.
I'll agree with you that there is one major momentum of anti-left backlash. It ranges from disaffected liberals like Dave Rubin to ethno nationalists like Richard Spencer. I also agree that the alt-right is sort of the anchor, and in a way sets the tone of the whole thing. The thing I disagree with is being too fuzzy about where you draw lines when it comes to particular stances. In a way it's their own damn fault fo…
Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
151–160 of 175 posts
Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
#152Earlier quoted context omitted.
>No, they're just lumped together in popular media. Breitbart and the Daily Stormer are portrayed as part of the same package, so that distasteful ideas from one can be used to discredit the other. No, Steve Bannon said in an interview that he led Breitbart in giving a spearhead to the alt-right in large media. >This erasure of the middle ground between center-left and extreme right is referred to in conservative cir…
The first time I came across the term alt-right was in this article on Breitbart: https://www.google.is/amp/www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/... . As a ex Ron Paul supporter with a distaste for the GOP and Neo-Cons, I proudly called myself alt-right. I joined a few alt-right forums and found similar-minded people. Libertarians, conservatives, nationalists (in the positive sense). Generally smart people. Not Nazis. N…
Is it that he's nowhere near as racist/misogynist as he's made out to be by left-side media? Is it that he's, in hindsight, a bad bet (which I sometimes feel is what Bannon might conclude)?
If you're not in favor of Trump's presidency, but supportive of Bannon, could you elaborate on how Trump failed?
And, finally, if you're not "pro-Bannon" but nonetheless alt-right by your definition, could you elaborate on the nuance between how the alt-right is presented in (quite possibly left-wing) media, and the alt-right that you are proud of?
If you're not comfortable doing this here, I'd love to discuss it over email or something like that. I truly am asking out of interest.
Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
#153Elon Musk has proved again and again that he is a gift from heaven to the human race. We must continue to support genius like him for the sake of humanity. Stop wasting money on endless wars, entitlements, fraud, waste, abuse, etc. Give our tax dollars to people that want to help mankind make a quantum leap forward. Extending life beyond earth is a necessity for the sustainment of humans
Is this supposed to be satire?
Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
#154Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
#155Earlier quoted context omitted.
>No, they're just lumped together in popular media. Breitbart and the Daily Stormer are portrayed as part of the same package, so that distasteful ideas from one can be used to discredit the other. No, Steve Bannon said in an interview that he led Breitbart in giving a spearhead to the alt-right in large media. >This erasure of the middle ground between center-left and extreme right is referred to in conservative cir…
The first time I came across the term alt-right was in this article on Breitbart: https://www.google.is/amp/www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/... . As a ex Ron Paul supporter with a distaste for the GOP and Neo-Cons, I proudly called myself alt-right. I joined a few alt-right forums and found similar-minded people. Libertarians, conservatives, nationalists (in the positive sense). Generally smart people. Not Nazis. N…
But bickering over what the word mean or what Bannon meant is not really the point. Give the Buzzfeed Breitbart leak story a read. In it you'll see Bannon encourage Milo to engage with white supremacists but try to dress them up publicly. They are in fact trying to hide it.
https://www.buzzfeed.com/josephbernstein/heres-how-breitbart...
Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
#156Earlier quoted context omitted.
You think paid shills are giving you the down votes? Ron Paul criticized Space X for getting John McCain to put a provision into the Senate Bill that favored Space X. 1) This provision is not IN the Senate bill. 2) The provision doesn't hurt Space X, but it doesn't directly do anything for them either. 3) The provision is in a House bill, and was put there by a congressman from Alabama, not John McCain. People don't…
Here's the problem. Ron Paul made an attribution error. This error is being used to discredit anyone who is critical of SpaceX's role. This same error was not repeated by all the news outlets listed. One person's mistake does not discredit every other argument about government spending on SpaceX. The primary argument from places like Breitbart is that SpaceX has been a benefit to reducing costs but not yet proved suf…
My view is that Musk has a big problem. If the main customer of his businesses is the tax payer, and the majority or very close to the majority of our tax payers are conservative, he can't be a political actor. This breeds a natural resentment that he is dealing with now.
Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
#157Earlier quoted context omitted.
"Neocons" were the foreign-policy hawks of the 2000s. These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right". They're basically as bad as you've heard, but hiding it sometimes. Even I find this particular turn against SpaceX somewhat weird. My internal model of the alt-right has largely been that they have one wing who are basically Nazi fanfiction, another who idolize the "throne and altar conservatism" of pre-Revolutio…
> These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right". No they don't. Most of "these guys", meaning the new right, distance themselves from that term because of its association with white nationalism. > They're basically as bad as you've heard, but hiding it sometimes. No, they're just lumped together in popular media. Breitbart and the Daily Stormer are portrayed as part of the same package, so that distasteful ideas…
Also interesting was the NYT Magazine piece that reported on the Harvard analysis of the network of links of the media. They talk about your issue head-on. Its conclusion was that Breitbart was not itself an extremist site a la Daily Stormer but that extremist sites link to Breitbart for legitimization. Breitbart had a section called "Black Crime" and it contained story after story after story of true(ish) content that Daily Stormer folks would link to say "Look what the n-words are up to now".
Its worth reading the quote:
The last thing Yochai Benkler noted before I left his office at Harvard was that his team had performed a textual analysis of all the stories in their database, and they found a surprising result. ‘‘One thing that came out very clearly from our study is that Breitbart is not talking about these issues in the same way you would find on the extreme right,’’ he said. ‘‘They don’t use the same language you find on sites like VDARE and The Daily Stormer’’ — two sites connected to the white-nationalist alt-right movement. He paused for a moment, then added: ‘‘Breitbart is not the alt-right.’’ Yet precisely because articles on the site were often less extreme than their own worst headlines, Breitbart functioned as a legitimizing tether for the most abhorrent currents of the right wing. Benkler referred to this as a ‘‘bridge’’ phenomenon, in which extremist websites linked to Breitbart for validation and those same fanatics could then gather in Breitbart’s comment section to hurl invectives.
https://www.nytimes.com/2017/08/16/magazine/breitbart-alt-ri...
Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
#158Earlier quoted context omitted.
>No, they're just lumped together in popular media. Breitbart and the Daily Stormer are portrayed as part of the same package, so that distasteful ideas from one can be used to discredit the other. No, Steve Bannon said in an interview that he led Breitbart in giving a spearhead to the alt-right in large media. >This erasure of the middle ground between center-left and extreme right is referred to in conservative cir…
The first time I came across the term alt-right was in this article on Breitbart: https://www.google.is/amp/www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/03/29/... . As a ex Ron Paul supporter with a distaste for the GOP and Neo-Cons, I proudly called myself alt-right. I joined a few alt-right forums and found similar-minded people. Libertarians, conservatives, nationalists (in the positive sense). Generally smart people. Not Nazis. N…
Rather than quibble over terminology, it's better if you just state your positive political program, and then we can see what you're into.
Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
#159Earlier quoted context omitted.
Here's the problem. Ron Paul made an attribution error. This error is being used to discredit anyone who is critical of SpaceX's role. This same error was not repeated by all the news outlets listed. One person's mistake does not discredit every other argument about government spending on SpaceX. The primary argument from places like Breitbart is that SpaceX has been a benefit to reducing costs but not yet proved suf…
This is a much better statement of your criticism. I think from "this point" we could a great conversation, and you might definitely win me over. My view is that Musk has a big problem. If the main customer of his businesses is the tax payer, and the majority or very close to the majority of our tax payers are conservative, he can't be a political actor. This breeds a natural resentment that he is dealing with now.
You're right that conservatives generally don't like Musk. His main attraction is his advocacy of the potential of technology to create a better future. Conservatives are generally more skeptical of the advantages of progress, and that's an important role to play in society. We need both believers who have the drive to try new things and skeptics to keep them from making stupid mistakes in their enthusiasm.
Tesla's autopilot and SpaceX's rockets offer cutting-edge technology for bargain prices, but they sacrifice the adherence to almost perfect reliability that has held the terrestrial and space transportation industries back. Skepticism about reliability might be partially motivated by dislike of his cult-like following, but it's often also rational and necessary. I think his companies will accomplish great things, and if he has to be a little more careful to please the conservative part of his funding and customer base, it will probably make him a better manager.
Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign
#160Earlier quoted context omitted.
> These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right". No they don't. Most of "these guys", meaning the new right, distance themselves from that term because of its association with white nationalism. > They're basically as bad as you've heard, but hiding it sometimes. No, they're just lumped together in popular media. Breitbart and the Daily Stormer are portrayed as part of the same package, so that distasteful ideas…
>No, they're just lumped together in popular media. Breitbart and the Daily Stormer are portrayed as part of the same package, so that distasteful ideas from one can be used to discredit the other. No, Steve Bannon said in an interview that he led Breitbart in giving a spearhead to the alt-right in large media. >This erasure of the middle ground between center-left and extreme right is referred to in conservative cir…
This both true and irrelevant to my point. Quick history lesson of the term:
It was originally coined by white nationalists. Later, when the new right came about, they billed themselves as an alternative to the neocons. Some of them began referring to themselves as alt-right in that sense, as did some outsiders. When made clear that the term originally referred to white nationalism, most of the new "alt-right" distanced themselves from the term, because they were not white nationalists. Some do still use the term in the sense of "alternative to the mainstream right". But, as said before, the vast majority have distanced themselves from it.
Bannon himself denounced the ethno-nationalists using the term "alt-right" multiple times. Furthermore, Bannon and Breitbart are not the new right. Many of us don't read or particularly like Breitbard. What one media outlet decides to call itself has nothing to do with a movement as a whole. Nobody that I know personally, as an active member of the new right, refers to themself as alt-right.
> There are really three problems here.
I'll address those one by one:
> The "center" and "center-left" are already, by historic standards, quite right-wing on economic policy. This really skews the claim that we're talking about a spectrum between a "center-left" and a "right", insofar as we're really just talking about different degrees of permissiveness or authoritarianism on social issues, plus the "center-left" maintaining the barest rudiments of a vestigial welfare-state.
You're muddying the waters here. Given that ardent National Socialists, while economically liberal, are considered far-right, we're obviously not talking about economics. Given that authoritarian communist regimes are considered far-left, we're obviously not talking about authoritarianism and libertarianism.
The new right is, for the most part, ardently anti-authoritarian.
And, in the sense of social conservatism, the current center is extreme left historically.
> * Within the Right, the factions that we could have called "center-right" got tossed out as RINOs long ago. Ronald Reagan advocated employee ownership of firms as the way of the future; today Republicans would treat that as socialist heresy.
Many, sure. And yet there are many of us who are being lumped into the "alt-right" for our social views, myself included, who would not react that way.
> Bush's "compassionate conservatism" is now unheard-of, as are Republican appeals to conservative people of color or immigrants.
Simply false. We have no issue with people of color or immigrants. We simply disagree with poisonous Cultural Marxist policies on such issues becoming law.
> * The alt-right has deliberately worked to blur the boundaries between the libertarian right and the authoritarian-nationalist right, usually by invoking anti-democratic, nationalistic libertarian thinkers such as Hans-Hermann Hoppe. You know, the guy who wrote that, "in a covenant founded for the purpose of protecting family and kin, there can be no tolerance toward those habitually promoting lifestyles incompatible with this goal. … [violators] will have to be physically removed from society."[1]
This is not a view shared by most of the new right, only certain more authoritariam elements. It certainly isn't any more extreme than the leftist craze for punching "Nazis".
> When your party has come to have a political spectrum stretching from Ayn Rand on its left to Augusto Pinochet on its right, yes, you are "these guys". Stop now, turn around, purge the alt-right, purge the Tea Party, and reestablish some common-sense and humanity, or else history will remember you as the bumbling enablers of American fascism.
> Life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, or "physical removal" by death squads: which side are you on?
This actually made me laugh.