Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode

ecn.nl

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

61–70 of 79 posts

Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode

#61

Post by dzhiurgis »

hwillis wrote: post #44
woodandsteel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what a pouch cell is? Is it the same as the battery in a cell phone or laptop? Why does it matter for this development that it's a pouch cell rather than some other type?

Cell phones use pouch batteries, aka prismatic cells. Laptops almost all use 18650 cells, which are cylindrical and look a lot like very large AA batteries. Coin cells are just really simple. They're pretty standard for proving your battery works. The thing is that there is a huge difference between that and a real useful battery. You can pay a grad student overtime to build a coin cell of about anything. You need a…

> Laptops almost all use 18650 cells

Only the ones with removable battery, which AFAIK is a minority nowadays.

Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode

#63

Post by wernercd »

yosyp wrote: post #55
wernercd wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No... the question is how easy will it be for "Solar" companies to slide into becoming "Solar & Battery" companies. Full solution - all with Silicon. If that's possible - and they can improve the cycle count... or do it cheap enough to make up for a low cycle count... or all of it - improve it, make it cheaper AND under one roof?

You wouldn't want to combine a solar cell and a battery in a single package; maybe in a modular system instead. After some amount of charge/discharge cycles the battery will quickly lose its capacity and utility. I suspect the operational lifespan of photovoltaics is much greater than the best batteries, and will continue to be for some time in the future.

Well, when I say "single package" I mean provided by a single company. As in a complete package: Solar panels, batteries, etc. The full deal.

I would expect the battery to be in the basement/garage/etc and not on the roof with the panels.

Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode

#64

Post by tmaly »

hwillis wrote: post #50
davesque wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that common? I was under the impression that it's somewhat scarce and, furthermore, a large amount of Lithium deposits reside in regions of relative political instability: https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/06/daily-...

It's more common in the crust than lead, the second most common battery type, and uses ~100x less per kWh than lead acid batteries do. Lithium is very poorly mapped. The last time the USGS surveyed it was in the 50s IIRC. For instance, that article is wildly inaccurate. It lists 6.9 million tonnes in the US. A single site, 45 miles to a side, in wyoming is estimated at up to 18 million tonnes of lithium[1]. Then agai…

Given the direction things are going with electric cars, will there be enough to satisfy the battery demands on a global scale?

Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode

#66

Post by [deleted] »

maxharris wrote: post #49
mitchty wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and limiting the amount of energy that could be released if there is a defect. I don't think i'd want a 1Kwh battery on a plane.

http://www.ehang.com/ehang184 This thing might blew my mind. It's a battery-powered drone that you can fly in! I don't know exactly how big the battery is, but my best guess is that it's bigger than 1Kwh... It's not vaporware either. There are lots of videos of this thing flying!

[deleted]

Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode

#67

Post by mitchty »

maxharris wrote: post #49
mitchty wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That and limiting the amount of energy that could be released if there is a defect. I don't think i'd want a 1Kwh battery on a plane.

http://www.ehang.com/ehang184 This thing might blew my mind. It's a battery-powered drone that you can fly in! I don't know exactly how big the battery is, but my best guess is that it's bigger than 1Kwh... It's not vaporware either. There are lots of videos of this thing flying!

Presumably its not a lithium ion battery that could have been (ab)used that just randomly happens to be in an airplane.

Purpose built batteries versus a general purpose battery that could have been engineered to different tolerances are a bit of a different beast.

Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode

#68

Post by woodandsteel »

hwillis wrote: post #44
woodandsteel wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you explain what a pouch cell is? Is it the same as the battery in a cell phone or laptop? Why does it matter for this development that it's a pouch cell rather than some other type?

Cell phones use pouch batteries, aka prismatic cells. Laptops almost all use 18650 cells, which are cylindrical and look a lot like very large AA batteries. Coin cells are just really simple. They're pretty standard for proving your battery works. The thing is that there is a huge difference between that and a real useful battery. You can pay a grad student overtime to build a coin cell of about anything. You need a…

Some useful information, but you didn't explain what the different types actually are. So I did a little research and found this

http://batteryuniversity.com/index.php/learn/article/types_o...

Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode

#69

Post by woodandsteel »

hwillis wrote: post #50
davesque wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it really that common? I was under the impression that it's somewhat scarce and, furthermore, a large amount of Lithium deposits reside in regions of relative political instability: https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/06/daily-...

It's more common in the crust than lead, the second most common battery type, and uses ~100x less per kWh than lead acid batteries do. Lithium is very poorly mapped. The last time the USGS surveyed it was in the 50s IIRC. For instance, that article is wildly inaccurate. It lists 6.9 million tonnes in the US. A single site, 45 miles to a side, in wyoming is estimated at up to 18 million tonnes of lithium[1]. Then agai…

From what I have read, lithium is poorly mapped because until recemt;u the global demand was low so there was no motivation to go out and look for it. Now that demand is skyrocketing, I bet a lot of companies are putting in a real search effort.

Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode

#70

Post by ksec »

hwillis wrote: post #12
baldfat wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> that commercial cells are That has been the conclusion of hundreds of these battery technology stories. We still haven't seen one these to work out yet in the past 20 years.

I assure you, they do regularly. A123 is the most well known example, but the vast majority of new developments don't involve a new company being formed. Making batteries is hard and few researchers want to build companies. Instead these developments quietly slip into commercial formulations as continuous, incremental improvements. There's certainly an unending flood of hyped up articles about new experiments, but al…

Sometimes I do wonder if Apple is actively looking at these breakthrough Battery tech. Or if they sit at the sideline and are generally happy with the price / performance ratio of the current battery.

Because I am pretty sure Apple has enough spare cash to fund it, assuming like you said this really is far into development then everything else.

Post reply on HN