Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign • Hacker News Board

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#131

Post by smhenderson » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 5:06 PM UTC

alexanderstears wrote: post #45

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Neocons" were the foreign-policy hawks of the 2000s. These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right". They're basically as bad as you've heard, but hiding it sometimes. Even I find this particular turn against SpaceX somewhat weird. My internal model of the alt-right has largely been that they have one wing who are basically Nazi fanfiction, another who idolize the "throne and altar conservatism" of pre-Revolutio…

>"Neocons" were the foreign-policy hawks of the 2000s. These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right". Hardly. Most nationalists (probably the LCD of dissident right movements) hate foreign entangelements. Trump saying Iraq was a waste of money is hardly an affirmation of the neocon platform of invasion. And it's an over-simplification to identify the 'anti corporate welfare' view with 'anti-spaceX'. They're anti…

>"Neocons" were the foreign-policy hawks of the 2000s. These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right".

I believe the original poster was trying to distinguish between the two groups, not state that they used to call themselves neocons but now call themselves the alt-right. Though both claim to be conservative each of them take political stances that are anathema to the other.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#132

Post by mrguyorama » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 5:11 PM UTC

Cuuugi wrote: post #104

baldfat wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they cry "Free Market PRIVATIZE" and now that we have a privatized space program we get this? LOL the hypocrisy is to much.

Privatization is not really privatization, when we (gov't) still pay for it.

How not? The government has satellites it wants to put in orbit, and therefor must purchase the service like anyone else. Should they get it for free?

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#133

Post by hithereagain » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 5:17 PM UTC

Freak_NL wrote: post #46

kevinmchugh wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "no gods no masters" (Game of Thrones reference, ding on the pop-culture) that's not a game of thrones reference as far as I can tell. It's an old anarchist and socialist slogan. It'd be an odd fit for that part of the right. "No gods or kings, only man" is a Bioshock reference that pops up sometimes in those parts.

> "No gods or kings, only man" is a Bioshock reference that pops up sometimes in those parts. Which in turn uses Ayn Rand's philosophy (Objectivism) as the basis of the fictional (failed) society in Bioshock. (Compare with this quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/207108-at-first-man-was-ens... ) Ayn Rand and her philosophy are quite popular in right-wing circles (and incidentally, largely denounced in academic ci…

BB&T, through its "BB&T Charitable Foundation", spent a lot of money injecting Ayn Rand into college curricula:

https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2015/10/16/new-paper-det...

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=9010409...

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#134

Post by mikeash » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

LyndsySimon wrote: post #128

mikeash wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re right, not every criticism is about disliking Musk. But I’m pretty sure this one is. I dragged Tesla into the conversation because I think it’s relevant. So do they.

I spend most of my time online in what the HN crowd would describe as "right-wing circles", and I have to agree with this. I'm seeing a rising sentiment that Elon Musk is someone who is skilled at over-promising and under-delivering, while repeatedly using subsidy and direct government funding to fatten his own pockets. I have no idea what this notion is based upon; it's not really something that has interested me.

There's a kernel of truth to it: he does over-promise, and often deliver short of his promises. It's just that the result is still pretty spectacular. It's not like he promises the moon and then hands you a bag of crap.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#135

Post by Torgo » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 5:23 PM UTC

exelius wrote: post #10

eli_gottlieb wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Neocons" were the foreign-policy hawks of the 2000s. These guys largely call themselves the "alt-right". They're basically as bad as you've heard, but hiding it sometimes. Even I find this particular turn against SpaceX somewhat weird. My internal model of the alt-right has largely been that they have one wing who are basically Nazi fanfiction, another who idolize the "throne and altar conservatism" of pre-Revolutio…

I'm not saying I agree with them, but a common theme I hear from the alt-right is "no gods no masters" (Game of Thrones reference, ding on the pop-culture). Now, nevermind that these guys are setting up as many gatekeeping functions as they tear down; they simply justify it as "protecting real hard-working Americans" through xenophobia. It's all built on the false nationalism of a flagging superpower, and if any of t…

Where are you hearing this? Many of them are literal monarchists.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#136

Post by baldfat » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 5:29 PM UTC

Cuuugi wrote: post #104

baldfat wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So they cry "Free Market PRIVATIZE" and now that we have a privatized space program we get this? LOL the hypocrisy is to much.

Privatization is not really privatization, when we (gov't) still pay for it.

HUH? Privatization is Government Work being run by a Non-Government Identity? The logic is confounding.

So all those Military Industry is still paid for by the TAX PAYER?! Makes no logical sense.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#137

Post by PeachPlum » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 5:33 PM UTC

dwaltrip wrote: post #122

PeachPlum wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Climate change is not denied. The human contribution and the potential consequences are considered still unproven hyperbole. The cost/benefit of doing something else is an ongoing discussion.

High quality links that cast credible doubt on the cause of rising co2 ppm and its long term effects? I'll bet money you have none. Items that have been debunked many times are obviously not high quality or credible. P.S. I wouldn't normally be so harsh... It's just a bit crazy how many times these claims keep coming up, when the evidence and the science is so crystal clear.

I didn't say it was my hypothesis

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#138

Post by nullymcnull » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

make3 wrote: post #80

"Musk has given lavishly to politicians, especially Arizona Senator John McCain (R). In return, McCain added Section 1615 to this year's defense authorization bill, which includes language to restrict the military from investing in new launch systems." As much as I love Musk, this is fucked up. Just a normal day in the American democracy I guess

If you had read the article beyond a few paragraphs, you would have realized that McCain introduced no such section to the bill in question. You're definitely part of the problem to have read that and taken it away as fact.

The article is illustrating a much deeper level of fucked up - the fact that Brietbart and other media outlets are singling out SpaceX here and misrepresenting the facts to demonize them, while turning a blind eye to the real pork - deeply entrenched interests like Boeing and Lockheed Martin, who've been siphoning billions out of government on space tech for decades. If anything, SpaceX has been disrupting the status quo there, opening the door to real market competition, in the long run reducing costs to taxpayers. The entrenched interests under threat are almost certainly behind these strangely framed (and outright dishonest) hit pieces.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#139

Post by toasterlovin » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

marksellers wrote: post #2

This new flavor of conservatism is so strange in light of how bound to free market ideals most flavors of conservatism are. In general, I really quite dislike Conservative/Liberal labels as political stances are not two-dimensional, but rather multidimensional. Parties are loose alliances of disparate groups. And somehow there's this rising contingent of neocons, who also happen to dislike SpaceX. Does anyone underst…

I think that framing this in an ideological way misses most of what is happening in political discourse right now. Ideology plays a role, but it is in the backseat.

Here's my theory:

Social media has created a new environment (in the ecological sense of the word) and we are witnessing people figuring out all the little niches that exist in this new environment which they can profitably occupy. So, in an example like this, what's really happening is that there are a handful of people who stand to gain tremendously by finding a new target for the mob's outrage, because outrage is what drives traffic and traffic is what allows these people to be full-time "social media personalities".

But the thing is that, for these people, the outrage of the mob is what truly motivates them, not ideology. There is a certain personality type that makes it's way in the world by maneuvering to the front of the mob. Being ideologically consistent is an after thought, if it matters at all. All you need is for your target to kinda sorta look enough like your ideological opponents that you can sell it to the mob. That is the litmus test for choosing a target and what I mean when I said, above, that ideology is in the backseat.

This phenomenon is driven by the opportunities that social media presents and certain actors capitalizing on these opportunities. Which means that this phenomenon is not relegated to right. As a great example, a conservative commentator, Ben Shapiro, recently spoke at UC Berkeley. Some of the protest signage was claiming to be against white supremacy, but, as you may have guessed by his name, Ben Shapiro is Jewish. So, you know, not a white supremacist. And he is not even a Trump supporter.

But a reasonable and nuanced take on things is the antidote to outrage, so of course reason and nuance will be absent among the people on the right and the left who benefit from the outrage of the mob.

Re: Breitbart, other conservative outlets escalate anti-SpaceX campaign

#140

Post by jandrese » Wed, Nov 01, 2017, 6:05 PM UTC

wmil wrote: post #60

Freak_NL wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "No gods or kings, only man" is a Bioshock reference that pops up sometimes in those parts. Which in turn uses Ayn Rand's philosophy (Objectivism) as the basis of the fictional (failed) society in Bioshock. (Compare with this quote: https://www.goodreads.com/quotes/207108-at-first-man-was-ens... ) Ayn Rand and her philosophy are quite popular in right-wing circles (and incidentally, largely denounced in academic ci…

> and incidentally, largely denounced in academic circles Not surprising. A tenured professor getting government grants for research is a villain by Randian standards.

It has been many years since I read the books, but I'm pretty sure university intellectuals were actual villains in Atlas Shrugged. IIRC didn't they say that more testing was needed before they could count the new supermetal as safe?

I remember thinking at the time that the hero was being really reckless and that advanced composites often fail in new and unexpected ways and that building an entire rail line out of the stuff before you understand how it fails is beyond risky. Of course because it was a book the metal is perfect in every way and never has a problem, but the real world is rarely so forgiving.