To the moderators, the title would be more accurate with 'fMRI' as opposed to 'MRI'. The latter is typically used to examine structural brain elements, whereas fMRI is thought to correlate with brain activity and, by extension, thought. Confusing the two would lead to the more unusual conclusion that suicidal ideation is associated with abnormal brain connectivity, while the authors are instead focusing on neuronal a…
Machine learning of neural representations of emotion identifies suicidal youth
71–77 of 77 posts
Re: Machine learning of neural representations of emotion identifies suicidal youth
#72Earlier quoted context omitted.
Gun ownership in the U.S. is strongly correlated with socio-economic status, locality, etc. Everybody points to the Australian example, where suicides declined after the 1996 gun control legislation. But unemployment in Australia peaked in 1995 and declined precipitously afterward until 2009. Given everything we know about suicide rates in other countries, and about changes in suicide rates domestically (e.g. recent…
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/ Tl;dr? * Many suicide attempts occur with little planning during a short-term crisis. * Intent isn’t all that determines whether an attempter lives or dies; means also matter. * 90% of attempters who survive do NOT go on to die by suicide later. * Access to firearms is a risk factor for suicide. * Firearms used in youth suicide usually belong to a parent. * Reducing access t…
Suicide is an epiphenomenon of larger socio-economic issues. Among OECD countries the U.S. comes in the middle of the pack. If guns were a causative factor, then considering how prevalent they are (by a ridiculous factor!) our rates should be much higher:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Suicide_in_the_United_States#/... http://foreignpolicy.com/2013/05/03/how-does-americas-suicid... http://www.oecd-ilibrary.org/sites/health_glance-2011-en/01/...
Any correlation between guns and suicide in the U.S. is easily understood in terms of modeling--guns are how Americans kill themselves. Take away the guns and, yes, there'll be a dip in suicide rates, until Americans learn how people kill themselves elsewhere around the world. Heck, they're already learning that with opioids.
Let's go back to what I said about Australia. I claimed that the change in Australian suicide rates is better understood in terms of the unemployment rate. Now let's test that hypothesis. [... google google google ... ] Here we go:
Suicide has reached a 10-year high in Australia as 3027
people killed themselves last year, the largest cause of
death among 15 to 44-year-olds.
Last year, 12.6 people in every 100,000 killed themselves
compared to 12 the year before, 11.4 in 2012 and a low of
10.4 in 2006.
-- http://www.theaustralian.com.au/news/nation/suicide-rate-in-australia-reaches-10year-high/news-story/cb5d8384aadb571778775bda236f3c35
What was the rate in 1995, the year before the gun control law? 13.0. (https://www.aph.gov.au/About_Parliament/Parliamentary_Depart...)So suicides were at their lowest the very same year that unemployment was at its lowest (2006)? Check! And they rose as unemployment rose? Check! To the point where they're back at the pre-law level? Check!
I won't deny that there's some nuance here that we can tease out, but if you read the actual papers that link guns to suicide, they do a much worse job at nuance. In fact, not a single one of the papers I've read even considered the unemployment rate. Which is patently bad science.
Correlation is not causation. All the gun suicide papers do is point out specious correlations. But you don't need a degree in statistics to know this. And you don't need a science degree to be able to see the gargantuan holes in these arguments--that the correlations have simpler explanations.
I'm not denying that gun control could appreciably effect suicide rates. Imitation and modeling have huge effects--much more well-established than the supposed gun effect. So huge that even news media abstain from reporting suicides, especially methods of suicide. Saving thousands of lives with gun control, even if it's an ephemeral gain, is an absolute benefit that's worth debating about. But let's just be honest about this stuff.
Re: Machine learning of neural representations of emotion identifies suicidal youth
#73Re: Machine learning of neural representations of emotion identifies suicidal youth
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Suicide is definitely linked to gun availability. "A study by the Harvard School of Public Health of all 50 U.S. states reveals a powerful link between rates of firearm ownership and suicides. Based on a survey of American households conducted in 2002, HSPH Assistant Professor of Health Policy and Management Matthew Miller, Research Associate Deborah Azrael, and colleagues at the School’s Injury Control Research Cent…
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_suicide... Lots of Europe has a higher suicide rate than the US. Within the US, as the other response said, gun ownership is confounded by all sorts of other factors.
Re: Machine learning of neural representations of emotion identifies suicidal youth
#75Earlier quoted context omitted.
https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/means-matter/ Tl;dr? * Many suicide attempts occur with little planning during a short-term crisis. * Intent isn’t all that determines whether an attempter lives or dies; means also matter. * 90% of attempters who survive do NOT go on to die by suicide later. * Access to firearms is a risk factor for suicide. * Firearms used in youth suicide usually belong to a parent. * Reducing access t…
Those are all just rationalizations. They can't reflect anything intrinsic about suicide risk if they can't predict relative suicide rates outside the U.S. Suicide is an epiphenomenon of larger socio-economic issues. Among OECD countries the U.S. comes in the middle of the pack. If guns were a causative factor, then considering how prevalent they are (by a ridiculous factor!) our rates should be much higher: https://…
It does seem like you agree in your last paragraph though though... gun control would lower suicide rates. People would try other methods which have higher failure rates, people's lives would be saved. Not all of them, but an appreciable amount.
Re: Machine learning of neural representations of emotion identifies suicidal youth
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
17 subjects per group is extremely small. Looking at it either from a machine learning or statistical point of view, using such a small sample is problematic. This is the chronic issue with fMRI studies, since administering an fMRI is extremely expensive, and has led to some very difficult to reproduce results in the field.
People love the "n=XX is far too little data!" argument, yet it's more complicated than that. Sometimes 600,000 is too little, yet sometimes 17 is enough. Example: you believe a newly found plant species is toxic. You give it to 17 "grad students volunteers", while giving a placebo to 17 others. All in the first group die aa gruesome death within 20 hours. None of the others do. Result: yes significance. (also: tenur…
Effect size is very important in this. To continue your grad student murder example, it's completely trivial to determine which plant a student was given, based on whether they are dead or not. It becomes trickier if you measured something a bit less cut-and-dry, such as the incidence of headaches, or variance in a few voxels of a noisy MRI.
Re: Machine learning of neural representations of emotion identifies suicidal youth
#77"This study used machine-learning algorithms (Gaussian Naive Bayes) to identify such individuals (17 suicidal ideators versus 17 controls) with high (91%) accuracy, based on their altered functional magnetic resonance imaging neural signatures of death-related and life-related concepts." Anyone with a Nature subscription want to check whether they simply trained their discriminator and then used it on the same data s…
17 subjects per group is extremely small. Looking at it either from a machine learning or statistical point of view, using such a small sample is problematic. This is the chronic issue with fMRI studies, since administering an fMRI is extremely expensive, and has led to some very difficult to reproduce results in the field.