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Permissionless innovation

learnliberty.org

51–60 of 115 posts

Re: Permissionless innovation

#51
post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I still don't think he is doing anything other than stating the obvious. He is not addressing any difficult issues.

OK sure :) It's a brief article. But it is not a “usual "government is bad" rant”.

I am actually quite sympathetic to libertarian thought but I never hear any concrete suggestions for dealing with complex issues like nuclear power safety, pollution (especially toxins where the effect is not that clear), public health, food safety and others.

For example: Innovation in self-driving cars would be much quicker if there was no regulation but how do you balance that against people not wanting to get run over by a car with buggy software? This would be an interesting discussion. Twitter is just a too easy example.

Re: Permissionless innovation

#54
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You must find the easy libertarians to debate. The answer is that maximizing liberty involves minimizing net aggressions, and externalities are aggressions. Therefore, a society is more free if the government proactively prevents/taxes/regulates certain types of externalities that are impractical to deal with in individual lawsuits (non-localized pollution fits this bill perfectly). In the case of smog, the most comm…

> And yes, the carbon tax is a libertarian concept. Actually, it's not. Pretty much everything I've read by the libertarians (Rothbardians really) about carbon taxes either call it a wealth redistribution scheme (which the original inventor[0] intended it to be) or a case illustrating how the true tragedy of the commons is the fact that the commons exist at all. So, for your mercury example, the libertarian solution…

which the original inventor[0] intended it to be

Not really. His plan calls for the proceeds of the taxes to be returned to every adult in equal portions. The "redistribution" is from people who pollute more to people who pollute less, not from the rich to the poor.

Meanwhile, so-called environmentalists and social justice advocates helped to defeat a proposed carbon tax in Washington state, specifically because it returned the revenue to the public (specifically targeting the poor) rather than spending it on their preferred government programs: https://insideclimatenews.org/news/09112016/washington-state...

Re: Permissionless innovation

#55

No mention of intellectual property. It isn’t government regulation that prevents people from innovating. It’s government protection of their innovation that incents them.

Yet that also makes it so that innovation requires permission from your competitors, which is stifling.

Re: Permissionless innovation

#56
post #21

It reminds me of an article I read years ago in a magazine about solar power. A guy decided to go off grid with solar panels and battery back up. He was living in Chicago. He called around to find out who regulated this sort of thing, where he needed to apply for permits or whatever. He learned that there wasn't a governing body. So he realized that as long as he didn't do anything stupid (a la burn the building down…

I can't remember if it was on HN or reddit, but there was a comment//post about how a job site operated similar to this.

To heavily paraphrase over the gist of the second-hand account from the boss: "Our workplace will be rule-free until people start abusing it. When someone goes overboard, a rule against their abuse will be created under their name which will be applicable to everybody; if you think that rule bullshit, go thank that person and a talk with your manager will always be welcome. We do this out of respect for you, our employees; you have our trust until you prove we don't."

Re: Permissionless innovation

#57
post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No True Libertarian No True Scotsman! Just like you are closely aligned with Fidel Castro and other autocrats on all issues, because you probably believe in socializing certain things, right? :) Libertarians are extremely intellectually diverse in their politics -- anecdotally , much more so than conservatives and progressives combined (population size adjusted). Old school Libertarians -- the ones often associated…

> The fact of the matter is that the idea of a carbon/pollution/externality-offsetting tax arises naturally from the non-aggression principle, as I described. Which begs the question on how one collects taxes without aggression? > And regardless, no, mercury has non-localized and criminal effects (poisoning is a form of assault). So you criminalize the "assault" then you don't need gov't watchdogs tracking all uses o…

> Which begs the question on how one collects taxes without aggression?

That is what the Rothbardians do not understand -- there is always aggression in the world. What you do not understand is that even though there is aggression in the world (i.e. we don't live in a perfect world where people don't game the system), that does not mean we should not seek to minimize it. To minimize aggression (and thereby maximize freedom) is a non-trivial and ever-changing optimization exercise.

For example, if by levying a tariff or property tax, a freedom-maximizing society's government is able to fund a standing army to prevent other governments from conquering a society, it is presumed that net aggression is minimized (i.e., from the standpoint of the citizenry who are being aggressed upon by their government in the form on involuntary taxes, because otherwise we can assume a different government would take its place, which would most likely not be a freedom maximizing government (or it wouldn't have been forming empires in the first place)).

> So you criminalize the "assault" then you don't need gov't watchdogs tracking all uses of mercury to ensure it doesn't end up on some poor sap's lawn because once you give them the power to outlaw one thing you give them the power to outlaw whatever they want.

Not sure what you're getting at here, if anything. I see no connection between 'lack of government watchdog employing mass surveillance to track all thermometers in the country' and society falling apart. Nor do I see the converse as an actual solution to mercury pollution -- do you?? So they track it, then what? How? What happens when thrown-out thermometers break and run off into the storm drain? What happens when somebody throws out mercury on some poor sap's lawn anyway? This is the second time you've made this invalid point -- people will break the law sometimes. There is punishment for that in both of these proposed systems. How is yours any more effective?

There will always be littering, and I whole-heartedly support generic clean-up efforts to counteract the summation of small, non-enforceable aggressions, that are not already assumed in externality taxes along the supply chain (like people dropping gum on the sidewalk, etc.) On the topic of those externality taxes, here's an example: purchaser of a combustible manufacturing fuel used to create cigarettes is charged an externality tax for the inherent environmental cost of using the fuel. Then the smoker pays a different tax to pay for the externality inherent in using the cigarette. Such a thing would not be fair for gum, though, because most people do not drop gum on the ground -- it isn't inherent so why should the Sean Spicer's of the world bear an outsized burden of the cost for cleanup?

Re: Permissionless innovation

#58
post #21

It reminds me of an article I read years ago in a magazine about solar power. A guy decided to go off grid with solar panels and battery back up. He was living in Chicago. He called around to find out who regulated this sort of thing, where he needed to apply for permits or whatever. He learned that there wasn't a governing body. So he realized that as long as he didn't do anything stupid (a la burn the building down…

I can't remember if it was on HN or reddit, but there was a comment//post about how a job site operated similar to this. To heavily paraphrase over the gist of the second-hand account from the boss: "Our workplace will be rule-free until people start abusing it. When someone goes overboard, a rule against their abuse will be created under their name which will be applicable to everybody; if you think that rule bullsh…

I am a big believer in "That government is best which governs least." I raised two 2xE sons (gifted plus special needs) and one of the best things I did was to only create minimal, very logical rules that they could respect and understand.

For example: "I need to be able to walk to the dresser and closet without hurting myself so I can put clothes away." This was clear and sensible instructions for deciding for themselves where they could leave toys out and where they couldn't. The reason for it was also readily grasped and something they could agree with. It wasn't just abstract "I am in charge, you will do as you are told!" type BS.

Re: Permissionless innovation

#59
post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OK sure :) It's a brief article. But it is not a “usual "government is bad" rant”.

I am actually quite sympathetic to libertarian thought but I never hear any concrete suggestions for dealing with complex issues like nuclear power safety, pollution (especially toxins where the effect is not that clear), public health, food safety and others. For example: Innovation in self-driving cars would be much quicker if there was no regulation but how do you balance that against people not wanting to get run…

> but I never hear any concrete suggestions for dealing with complex issues like nuclear power safety,

Because you aren't listening. The libertarian solution for nuclear power safety is regulation and personal culpability/liability.

Re: Permissionless innovation

#60
post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A fruitless exercise. The same pathology that prevents you from understanding his article, would prevent you from understanding further explanation. Go back. Read the article again. Multiple times. And TRY to do it fairly. TRY to recognise your biases and presumptions. If you are incapable of doing that, then what chance would other people have of successfully explaining it?

You are a master debater.

This isn't rhetoric. I sincerely believe you cannot overcome your biases. People could spend hours trying to explain this to you, and you will simply turn around and claim that libertarians think nuclear safety regulation is bad.
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