201–210 of 214 posts
Earlier quoted context omitted.
True, but it will get better with time.
The fact of the matter is that in the things that matter, a web view is more native than this—and in practice probably always will be. :-(
Earlier quoted context omitted.
HipChat's being deprecated in the not to distant future in favor of Atlassian's Slack clone called "Stride".
Not according the the Atlassian folks. HipChat will live on, Stride is just replacing HipChat as their SaaS offering.
>For now, HipChat Cloud will continue to be supported, but eventually we will encourage all HipChat Cloud customers to upgrade to Stride.
This seems like business speak for "get converted to Stride sooner rather than later because HipChat won't be around for much longer".
https://confluence.atlassian.com/stride-documentation/faq-st...
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Not according the the Atlassian folks. HipChat will live on, Stride is just replacing HipChat as their SaaS offering.
>Do you plan to sunset HipChat Cloud? >For now, HipChat Cloud will continue to be supported, but eventually we will encourage all HipChat Cloud customers to upgrade to Stride. This seems like business speak for "get converted to Stride sooner rather than later because HipChat won't be around for much longer". https://confluence.atlassian.com/stride-documentation/faq-st...
HipChat will live on as the behind the firewall solution for companies that do not want a pure SaaS app.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
"No better alternative" != "right". As you observe, a compromised choice is still compromised.
Nothing is perfect, every choice is a compromise. As a company, there are limits to how much time and effort is spent while growing their business. How much RAM is used is very low on the list of considerations.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Harder to work with than CSS. Harder to align look of web and desktop.
> Harder to align look of web and desktop This is what I don't want, I want it to look like every other desktop app, I want to be able to set the theme of my OS and have every app adopt it, I don't want every piece of software thinking it's special and looking different. > Harder to work with than CSS. What native technologies have you used? Many are easier than css+html and look native by default.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
> Maybe the detractors would prefer that the app did less. Sorry, that argument just does not hold water. On my Mac currently, MS Outlook is using 483 MB versus Slack using 704 MB, with just one tab open. For all of Outlook's bloat, one can hardly say it does less than Slack; it's just a glorified chat app for pity's sake. Even IntelliJ is using only 2x as much RAM as Slack with 4 medium sized projects open and Intel…
Yea a glorified chat app with video chat, audio chat, screen sharing and screen takeover remotely, file uploading, 3rd party integrations doing multiple things depending on your team setup, etc. I'd hardly call it a glorified chat app.
All of these are dormant features.
> 3rd party integrations
Which are processed on the server.
The complaint is that Slack uses an ungodly amount of resources when they're just sitting idle consuming new messages.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nothing is perfect, every choice is a compromise. As a company, there are limits to how much time and effort is spent while growing their business. How much RAM is used is very low on the list of considerations.
I would be fine with the amount of RAM used, if Slack didn't also materially reduce my battery life, by keeping my CPU — and fan — spun up. Charge-discharge cycle counts are a limited thing. They're directly shortening the lifespan of my hardware, doing that.
Why not just use another tab in your existing browser then? Or another service entirely?
Either way, it doesn't change anything in creating a widely used application for the least amount of time and effort. The vast majority of their users will not care or even notice if there was a more efficient native app.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I'm on Linux, and I want an XWindows-native UI. I want to be able to identify windows by their class. I want to be able to embed them. I want to be able to script them from the command line. I don't want something which is as weak & unusable as what I'd get on Windows or macOS.
That’s geek-speak. Most people don’t care about native/scriptability/embeddability. They want the same apps with the same functionality that the rest of the world uses.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
I would be fine with the amount of RAM used, if Slack didn't also materially reduce my battery life, by keeping my CPU — and fan — spun up. Charge-discharge cycle counts are a limited thing. They're directly shortening the lifespan of my hardware, doing that.
Is that really your argument? Slack has a material effect on your hardware life - as opposed to all the other usage? Is slack the only thing you're running? Why not just use another tab in your existing browser then? Or another service entirely? Either way, it doesn't change anything in creating a widely used application for the least amount of time and effort. The vast majority of their users will not care or even n…
My employer dictates the choice of communications tool. I don't just get to "pick another service entirely."
EDIT: And their site's 2FA (which I'm required to use, because $work) also reliably gives me "too many login failures" on the first login attempt, so using it in a browser tab is a non-starter, even without also losing desktop notifications.
With the amount of money they've been given, both by VC and by customers (I know what we pay them per month, and although we're not a small company, we're far from their biggest customer), this quality of software and service is absurd.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
The fact of the matter is that in the things that matter, a web view is more native than this—and in practice probably always will be. :-(
No. That's actually almost never true. It certainly isn't what I meant.
Browsers—well, Gecko and Edge; WebKit and Blink aren’t quite so good at it—tend to do things properly or to a remarkably high fidelity. They put enormous amounts of effort into getting it right, because it’s worth it for them. Something like Qt also puts a lot of effort into getting it right (even if it still commonly requires the developer to make certain choices to use that rightness).
But something like this, not using any GUI toolkit? Games can do it, because they aren’t trying to fit in with the everything else, but regular applications just shouldn’t do it. I have never seen a single one that was even good, let alone great. They always fail to handle various important things properly, and so tend to wind up painful to use or even unusable for many users.
If you care about your users and are not making a game, the sad truth is that drawing all the controls yourself is irresponsible.