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If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

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Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#491

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am a man. I am definitely privileged because of it. Many men make similar observations: https://whatever.scalzi.com/2012/05/15/straight-white-male-t...

That article doesn't list one concrete example of how being a straight white male actually made life easier for him. I can and have listed several major, specific ways in which it's the opposite. I hate to use the T-word but this sort of non-argument you've just presented is exactly why Trump won. It's just racist, sexist self-loathing based on nothing whatsoever. If there was something, that guy would have listed a…

It's not my job to argue you into understanding something. It is not every writer's job to prove everything to the satisfaction of somebody deeply invested in the opposite being true.

This stuff is pretty easy to look up. There are books, blogs, studies, and memoirs that I found very useful. If you actually care, you could find things, too. That's how I went from ignorant to having basic knowledge. Maybe you could try that.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#492

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> "women are inferior" dressed up in a dinner jacket so it fits in with polite company No, it's not even close to the same. That an individual is less likely to choose a career doesn't mean that individual inherently is bad at it. You keep trying to imply that I think less of women. I don't. I'm happy to acknowledge there are plenty of women who are much better than me at tech and plenty that have helped me out. Jus…

This is the heart of your ignorance: > They just happen in smaller numbers compared to men. Black people just happened to perfect slaves, unsuited to life as free people. [1] Women just happened not to want the vote. [2] Those were dumb arguments then, and it's a dumb argument now. Things don't just happen; they happen for reasons. And given our multi-millennial history of male dominance over women, these reasons are…

You keep saying the same thing, and I keep telling you why you're wrong, and for some reason you keep saying the same thing, as if somehow rewording them changes anything.

I'll repeat myself for a change, since you don't seem to get it:

"All this theorizing, and you still don't explain to me why we see the distribution of the AP testing that we do, why at gender-blind universities the rate of females in STEM is lower than that of those practicing affirmative action (which essentially amounts to bar-lowering), and why you think discriminating against qualified men is an appropriate solution.

Until you provide feasible arguments to each of these, no amount of implicitly calling me a sexist is going to change my mind."

>> Those were dumb arguments then, and it's a dumb argument now.

Back then, there were laws that actively prohibited African-Americans from attaining freedom and women from voting, and government backed frameworks in place to enforce these laws.

Name a SINGLE law today that actively restricts women but not men from choosing any career path.

>> you can probably work out what I think you'll actually do.

Can you tell me some of YOUR efforts in helping educate and tutor young kids in STEM?

Quit stroking yourself by claiming to be morally righteous, get your ass off the internet once in your life, and go tutor a young girl in trigonometry this weekend.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#493

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is the heart of your ignorance: > They just happen in smaller numbers compared to men. Black people just happened to perfect slaves, unsuited to life as free people. [1] Women just happened not to want the vote. [2] Those were dumb arguments then, and it's a dumb argument now. Things don't just happen; they happen for reasons. And given our multi-millennial history of male dominance over women, these reasons are…

You keep saying the same thing, and I keep telling you why you're wrong, and for some reason you keep saying the same thing, as if somehow rewording them changes anything. I'll repeat myself for a change, since you don't seem to get it: "All this theorizing, and you still don't explain to me why we see the distribution of the AP testing that we do, why at gender-blind universities the rate of females in STEM is lower…

Buddy, based on your behavior here I'm explicitly calling you an active supporter of systemic sexism. You may or may not be personally biased, and I certainly have a guess, but that's irrelevant to my point here.

Your insistence that the only way that sexism and racism work is through the law is ignorant and ahistorical. They preceded the laws that expressed them; they also survived the demise of those laws. I've told you repeatedly that you are harming people through your ignorance. You don't care, and have never cared enough about this topic to actually learn about it. There is no point to arguing the minutiae of your weird little self-constructed justifications. My extensive experience with MRAs, etc, is that when proven wrong on point A will just drag out points B-Z. Or they'll go quiet. Or start introducing irrelevancies, like exactly how many young kids I've tutored in STEM this week. I've got better things to do.

If you're serious about helping women, you'll go take a women's studies class and learn something about this. Either way, I'm done.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#494

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You keep saying the same thing, and I keep telling you why you're wrong, and for some reason you keep saying the same thing, as if somehow rewording them changes anything. I'll repeat myself for a change, since you don't seem to get it: "All this theorizing, and you still don't explain to me why we see the distribution of the AP testing that we do, why at gender-blind universities the rate of females in STEM is lower…

Buddy, based on your behavior here I'm explicitly calling you an active supporter of systemic sexism. You may or may not be personally biased, and I certainly have a guess, but that's irrelevant to my point here. Your insistence that the only way that sexism and racism work is through the law is ignorant and ahistorical. They preceded the laws that expressed them; they also survived the demise of those laws. I've tol…

I'd written a paragraph explaining why your arguments are wrong and asking you to reevaluate your viewpoint. But forget that.

I'll ask you this: UC Berkeley, a school that does not consider gender in applications per California law, has a EECS department makeup of 4:1 M/F.

UC Berkeley is required by law to not consider gender when evaluating applicants, is extremely liberal/left, and has an overall population of 52% female.

Explain to me what UC Berkeley is doing wrong, and how we should change it.

If you think UC Berkeley should lower the bar for female applicants to achieve parity, then our conversation is over, because we have fundamentally different ideals. I want meritocracy. You want to parasitically feed off of someone else's merits - I guess they call it "socialism" but that word has become so mainstreamed it doesn't do justice to how despicable your utopia is.

If you think increasing outreach efforts to get more children interested in science so (and therefore, there will naturally be more female applicants as a consequence) , you'd stop dismissing me as a "sexist" and think critically about why it is that I'm doing what I'm doing.

>> My extensive experience with MRAs, etc,

I'm not a mens right activist, nor have I once suggested that the system is designed against men, so you can throw aside your straw mans now.

>> I've got better things to do. If you're serious about helping women

Sounds like to me you don't actually want equality, you just pretend you do so you can "feel" like you're part of a new Civil Rights movement while actually doing nothing about it. Except occasionally tapping away at your keyboard calling others sexist.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#495

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Yes, that explains the overwhelming concentration on the email "scandal" whilst ignoring literally everything that Trump said. It was not entirely undeserved though - the scandal was certainly newsworthy and had many unprecedented events. The Bill Clinton-Loretta Lynch tarmac meeting was highly inappropriate, leading to the eventual decision falling to James Comey. James Comey had earlier, much to the dismay of Rep…

Wow, you really bought into the Trump campaign, huh. > There is no evidence to suggest that they are being willfully ignored Check any analysis of the coverage - Trump's was overwhelmingly "oh, this guy!" whilst ignoring his racism, sexism, misogyny, etc. > to condemn an entire demographic of people by dismissing their success to be a consequence of privilege You seem to be suggesting that because some white people h…

> Wow, you really bought into the Trump campaign, huh.

Secretary Clinton fainted on 9/11 after a long and coordinated media campaign effort to suggest she was in perfect health.

The Wikileaks emails of John Podesta (I have read them individually) show clear evidence of the relationship between the campaign and the press, and that the press routinely sought vetos and approvals on stories they were going to run. I'll be happy to share links to the individual emails.

The Trump campaign has very little access to reach me - I don't get to watch their ads on TV or receive any of their messaging because I live in Mumbai. My knowledge of the details of the election is from the data I have been motivated to find on the basis of my own interest in this subject during 2016.

Me:

> This privilege certainly exists in several contexts,

You:

> You seem to be suggesting that because some white people have struggles, there must be no white privilege. Which is bollocks as you well know.

I think we should re-evaluate what I am suggesting because perhaps I have not articulated other parts of my comment properly, but I am confident in the part quoted above which is fairly explicit.

> Check any analysis of the coverage - Trump's was overwhelmingly "oh, this guy!" whilst ignoring his racism, sexism, misogyny, etc.

This is 100% true of the Republican Primary, but not true of the General Election campaign that followed thereafter. During the Republican Primary - in early 2015, Marissa Astor (Hillary for America) emailed the DNC with the following quote:

"We need to be elevating the Pied Piper candidates so that they are leaders of the pack and tell the press to take them seriously"

The Clinton Campaign and the DNC believed the best way to strategize was to legitimize these candidates, as indicated below:

"The variety of candidates is a positive here, and many of the lesser known can serve as a cudgel to move the more established candidates further to the right. In this scenario, we don’t want to marginalize the more extreme candidates, but make them more 'Pied Piper' candidates who actually represent the mainstream of the Republican Party."

Here's a link to the PDF https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/fileid/1120/251

During the final stages general election, coverage of both candidates was overwhelmingly negative as per an analysis conducted by the Harvard Kennedy Center for Media, Politics and Public Policy.

The biggest victim of the media was Senator Bernie Sanders, who received virtually no coverage during the Primary season, which was largely the result of an orchestrated effort on the part of the DNC under Debbie Wasserman-Schultz, to favour coverage of Secretary Clinton over Senator Sanders. This is a view shared by former senate minority leader Harry Reid, as well as Senator Sanders himself. This view was further the subject of a court proceeding wherein the court dismissed the matter as the question of its legality did not arise since the DNC was entitled to name its own candidate if it wanted to.

Aside from the Harvard Kennedy research, there is ample evidence to disprove the claim that media "ignored" candidate Trump's racism, misogyny, sexism, etc. Here are a few:

- Online outlets like Vox had articles that outright declared in the first sentence "Donald Trump is a bigot".

- A CNN headline from August 2016: "We're Shocked, Donald Trump is a sexist"

- Another CNN headline from August 2016: "Paul Ryan rips Donald Trump remarks as 'textbook definition of a racist comment'". Note that this includes the speaker of the house attacking his own party candidate - at this point the media, the DNC and the speaker of the house are condemning him for racism.

- MSNBC June 2016: "Donald Trump’s overt racism takes 2016 race in a new direction"

- Fox News' Shepard Smith in August 2016: "Donald Trump ‘Trades in Racism’"

To suggest that this was downplayed in any way would also be a bit misleading, since the language here is fairly strong and explicit. There are no subtle allusions to racism, bigotry or sexism of any kind. The media is not using soft language or tip-toeing around these claims in the slightest.

Even if one were to concede that the media was ruthless in its persecution of Hillary Clinton over the private email server, it would simply even up their existing persecution of Candidate Trump as a liar, which was a regular feature of media coverage, particularly surrounding the debates. To the public, the choice would then be two liar candidates, of which one is a sexist, racist, misogynist - as per the media's coverage.

Re: If you care about diversity, don't just hire from the same five schools

#496
From what I understand a certain large UK pharma company has already been running an AI based, video conference only recruiting program. So far its been a massive success as the pool of applicants they recruit from grew from just 3 top tier UK universities to about 30. They also noted that the applicants stayed longer in the firm, were a better fit and were marked as a success within the first year of employment.
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