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Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

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Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#31

Post by amyjess »

camelNotation wrote: post #8
AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #3

Everytime I read one of these viewpoints I hear: 'I think others should be descriminated against and for that I am getting descriminated against? How dare they descriminate against my right to descriminate!'

The reduction of conservative beliefs to "discrimination of others" is a lot of the problem here. Conservative politics is a broad space. Sure, there are racists and misogynists among them and they get a lot of publicity, but there are also people who believe that all human beings are equal and that something like laissez-faire capitalism leads to a more just and prosperous society for everyone. They might be mistake…

I'm a liberal, I have a co-worker who's a NeverTrump conservative, and we've bonded a lot over Trump's lack of decorum, professionalism, and basic respect for other human beings.

Unfortunately, NeverTrump conservatives like him are few and far between. Sadly, the majority of conservatives I've encountered have completely sold out their principles to support Trump.

Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#32

Post by pg_bot »

creaghpatr wrote: post #11

Why do people voice personal political views at work? Is this a California thing?

A surprisingly large number of people wear their political opinions on their sleeves. During the election last year I saw a few people in my office with Hillary Clinton action figures. (this was in NYC)

Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#33

Post by chippy »

gonehome wrote: post #9

"John: If I walked into work with a "Make America Great Again" hat, there would be repercussions. Quite a few people would take it as a personal affront, and I would expect to be out of the company within weeks, if not a month." If someone walked in with a young earth creationist hat I would similarly question their ability to think critically (and have a hard time not just categorizing them as stupid). Is this reall…

Would you expect the Young Creationist to create personal offence in their co-workers and expect them to be out of the company in weeks? Because I don't think that would be the case.

Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#34

Post by notconservative »

patrickaljord wrote: post #19
AdeptusAquinas wrote: post #3

Everytime I read one of these viewpoints I hear: 'I think others should be descriminated against and for that I am getting descriminated against? How dare they descriminate against my right to descriminate!'

Shaming people for their opinions is a terrible tactic in a democracy. In a dictatorship it works amazing, just shame them, jail them if they persist or make them disappear if they're really stubborn. The problem with shaming people for their opinions in a democracy is that they will keep them secret all the way to the voting booth and take their revenge for the shaming there, and then everyone is surprised when cand…

I can say from first hand experience that this has happened. I know several closeted conservatives at my workplace and we all know that you shouldn't share your political leanings with anyone. Luckily there is some internal diversity of opinions. So, we can confront each other without consequences on things like immigration, labor issues, free trade, and social programs.

But, there are naturally areas where we all agree: guns, some other economic stuff, etc. So those opinions go completely unchallenged, where it'd be healthier to have liberal people to test those opinions.

Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#35

Post by api »

jpfed wrote: post #10
camelNotation wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The reduction of conservative beliefs to "discrimination of others" is a lot of the problem here. Conservative politics is a broad space. Sure, there are racists and misogynists among them and they get a lot of publicity, but there are also people who believe that all human beings are equal and that something like laissez-faire capitalism leads to a more just and prosperous society for everyone. They might be mistake…

Laissez-faire capitalists are a dime a dozen in technology. You cannot swing a cat without hitting a libertarian (so, you know, put the cat down). To the extent that a conservative is claiming to be discriminated against, they're not suffering for the fiscal dimension of their beliefs.

Libertarians aren't conservatives. Libertarianism is a different branch of the same tree as other forms of liberalism. The goal is maximization of individual human well being and potential. The disagreement is over how best to achieve that.

Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#36

Post by hasbroslasher »

majormajor wrote: post #17
colanderman wrote: post #5

Why would you not expect your co-workers to take a MAGA hat as a personal attack? The MAGA platform is associated with explicitly barring some of them from the country. Remember that even some green card holders were briefly barred from reentering. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769#Green-ca...

What if you don't have the hat but don't favor liberal immigration policies? Would expressing this political stance be taken as a personal attack? If so, that level of "we must stamp out the heresy!" is generally associated with more extreme religious types, not supposedly rational open-minded people. And that's where the danger lies: once you stop permitting the expression of contrary views, your ability to argue ag…

The problem, of course, is that there's no way to tell from outward appearances what someone believes. A good example of this is the appropriation of Satanic imagery in rock music: few of these bands are theistic or LaVeyan Satanists, most of them are just doing it to send a message. The connotation of pentagrams and upside down crosses is "watch out, I'm evil, I like evil things, etc". Conservative Christians, however, often don't realize this and legitimately believe these people to be agents of the Devil, when usually they're just trying to provoke a reaction.

There's a layer of semiotics that's important to any outward appearance. Wearing a swastika but saying "Nonono it's a Hindu symbol of fertility" probably wouldn't go over well. Nor would saying "Well I didn't like the Holocaust but I really did think the Nazis had some good ideas about things". Similarly, wearing a hammer and sickle shirt will get you into trouble in more conservative places.

The MAGA hat's obviously on a different level than that, but it does explain some of the reasoning. That hat in particular represents (sometimes fanatical) appreciation for a man that liberals believe is doing immense harm to our nation, it's citizens and its image via racist, reactionary and backwards-looking politics. Because of far-right extremists, I get scared when I see that hat, to me it signals some form of white supremacy that I need to stay away from. So yes, wearing it at work might make people uncomfortable.

Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#37

Post by jerkstate »

quotemstr wrote: post #24
jerkstate wrote: post #18

Ignoring for a moment the moral judgement of whether conservatism is "right" or "wrong" ... I imagine this is probably how closeted gay people felt for a long time, and still do outside of places like the Bay Area. It's poetic justice. The playing field will probably wobble back and forth for a little while and white conservative men will learn to play by the new rules - claiming victim status is as good a place to s…

When I was a child, I was taught that two wrongs don't make a right.

so you're saying it's wrong to shame/shun/undermine those at work because you disagree with their opinions on public policy?

Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#38

Post by chippy »

colanderman wrote: post #5

Why would you not expect your co-workers to take a MAGA hat as a personal attack? The MAGA platform is associated with explicitly barring some of them from the country. Remember that even some green card holders were briefly barred from reentering. [1] [1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Executive_Order_13769#Green-ca...

The article suggests the novel view that showing one's political side in the workplace should not be considered offensive nor for it to be taken personally.

Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#39

Post by notconservative »

tasty_freeze wrote: post #20
notconservative wrote: post #13

The ultimate irony is that many conservatives will hesitate before commenting on this here, because people don't want to be on the receiving end of a torrent of downvotes.

Anyone who cares about downvotes is a shallow idiot. I can think of more serious consequences, but caring about getting greyed out on HN is not one of them.

My main account is my reputation on the internet. That means there literally would be "serious consequences" if I posted conservative opinions. So, yeah. I'm a shallow idiot for not wanting to get fired.

Re: Divided We Code: Undercover Conservatives

#40

Post by BeetleB »

gonehome wrote: post #9

"John: If I walked into work with a "Make America Great Again" hat, there would be repercussions. Quite a few people would take it as a personal affront, and I would expect to be out of the company within weeks, if not a month." If someone walked in with a young earth creationist hat I would similarly question their ability to think critically (and have a hard time not just categorizing them as stupid). Is this reall…

I think it is reasonable to question their competency. I think we all do it to an extent with coworkers.

The mistake is concluding it based on this type of scant information.

You treat it like any other unknown. You investigate deeper. If you work with the person for a while, you'll know his reasoning abilities far better than the information you gleaned from that hat.

>If someone walked in with a young earth creationist hat I would similarly question their ability to think critically (and have a hard time not just categorizing them as stupid).

And yet I've worked with a young earth creationist who was the best coder in his team (the rest of whom were not creationists). From my general experiences in life, his example is not much of an outlier.

Science Nobel laureates have believed in stupid things, as did many well known mathematicians of the past. Given that, why would you question his abilities?

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