We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#541

Post by flaque » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:49 PM UTC

lynnetye wrote: post #509

beat wrote: post #275

So here's the thing... hiring at larger, growing companies often means weeding through a stack of a hundred resumes, for one or two or five roles. Most of those resumes need to go away. The interview process, for competent candidates, is going to cost you at bare minimum a half hour of one person's time for initial screening. A quality interview is going to take a couple of hours each for a few important people - man…

I'm a web developer who has been thinking about engineering hiring and culture a LOT over the last 6 months. I'm confused about employers' desire to cast a wide net, only to filter through applicants thoughtlessly. Instead, why don't engineering teams save time and energy by articulating their specific engineering values, and sharing that information up front? Be honest. Say divisive things. This will allow job-seeke…

This is quite cool. I'm adding this to Gonzaga University's CS student career guide: https://github.com/gu-app-club/lets-learn-jobs/blob/master/R...

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#542

Post by ejnulls » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:49 PM UTC

CoolGuySteve wrote: post #73

cheez wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sure they may lose some great candidates that way, but the reality is that they don't want people in finance because: 1. They have preconceived notions about how finance "should" work 2. People not from finance are driven by other things This is not to say that there aren't people from finance who don't fall under this, but it's a good way to weed them out without inviting a billion applications from people in financ…

So then by your own admission they’re not hiring the best due to this heuristic. One thing my experience in HFT has taught me is that technical ability is only loosely correlated with profitability. So I wouldn't conflate Renaissance's success with their hiring practices.

Can you be "the best" if the way you think the company works is at odds with the rest of the company?

Maybe you're just the best at extracting value for yourself but not at creating value for the company. "The best" is super subjective and can mean so many different things.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#543

Post by na85 » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:50 PM UTC

cwyers wrote: post #540

lynnetye wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a web developer who has been thinking about engineering hiring and culture a LOT over the last 6 months. I'm confused about employers' desire to cast a wide net, only to filter through applicants thoughtlessly. Instead, why don't engineering teams save time and energy by articulating their specific engineering values, and sharing that information up front? Be honest. Say divisive things. This will allow job-seeke…

Applicants do not self-filter. If you've ever read resumes for a job listing that haven't been prescreened, you'll be blown away by how many people refuse to self-filter even for basic fitness for the job. Put out a job listing asking for a college degree, and you'll get applicants who are still in school with their graduation date two years in the future looking for an internship. That's an extreme, but people will…

Applicants don't self filter because they are conditioned by job postings that bear little relation, if any, to the actual job.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#544

Post by DarronWyke » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:51 PM UTC

wenc wrote: post #350

jackhack wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Oracle's licensing prohibits any benchmarking That tells me all I need to know.

Forgive my sloppy phrasing, I should be clear: Oracle's license terms prohibit public disclosure of any benchmarks without their consent. So technically you can benchmark in-house, but you can't publish those results without written permission.

That's a lot worse. It's not just prohibition, it's a way to filter out anything negative through license enforcement.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#545

Post by beat » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:52 PM UTC

lynnetye wrote: post #509

beat wrote: post #275

So here's the thing... hiring at larger, growing companies often means weeding through a stack of a hundred resumes, for one or two or five roles. Most of those resumes need to go away. The interview process, for competent candidates, is going to cost you at bare minimum a half hour of one person's time for initial screening. A quality interview is going to take a couple of hours each for a few important people - man…

I'm a web developer who has been thinking about engineering hiring and culture a LOT over the last 6 months. I'm confused about employers' desire to cast a wide net, only to filter through applicants thoughtlessly. Instead, why don't engineering teams save time and energy by articulating their specific engineering values, and sharing that information up front? Be honest. Say divisive things. This will allow job-seeke…

A bigger problem in many cases isn't casting too wide a net in terms of corporate culture... it's big companies that need to hire quickly, using cheap mass-market recruiting companies that aren't picky about what they're sending over.

And, in the enterprise, the elaborate rules for recruiters, created by too many layers of HR (process is the scar tissue of organizations), means that small, boutique recruiters that are more careful about fit can't even get in the door.

A large pile of crap resumes is the result.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#546

Post by DarronWyke » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:55 PM UTC

dimman wrote: post #199

DarronWyke wrote: post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Beyond that, software development is plagued by this mindset that college degrees are useless and that only self taught people are worth looking into. Ugh, yes. I've worked for a leading SIM and smart card manufacturer and they required a 4-year degree to even get in the door. I interviewed countless people, including some who were able to answer some quite technical questions that others couldn't. And many of those…

One doesn't prove the other, that's my point. The only thing that can be said is that a degree doesn't prove if someone fits a position or not, it only proves they've finished an education. I've also been in the field for many years and held several interviews. My takeaway, to put it a bit clumsy: "knowledge is easy to fix, mindset and experience not as easy."

As I told someone over Twitter the other day: mindset isn't something that can be readily taught, which is why STEM is still so in-demand with a gross labor shortage. For most people it's something you either innately have or don't have.

But yeah. I was reinforcing your point, not being counter.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#547

Post by ltrcola » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:55 PM UTC

lynnetye wrote: post #532

teen wrote: post #526

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This will allow job-seekers to self-filter ?? The problem is not employers casting a wide net, but everyone applying for the job.

There are two problems: For employers, it's casting a wide net and then struggling to filter out "noise" quickly. Employers will use pass on great engineers and interview not-so great ones (see parent comment). Instead of saying, "Work for us, we're the best!" why don't engineering teams say, "We prioritize speed over quality, are great for individual contributors, and prefer asynchronous comms over lots of meetings.…

Again, I think the problem is bad devs that will apply for any job regardless of your stated values.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#548

Post by sirmarksalot » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:56 PM UTC

lr4444lr wrote: post #528

lynnetye wrote: post #509

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a web developer who has been thinking about engineering hiring and culture a LOT over the last 6 months. I'm confused about employers' desire to cast a wide net, only to filter through applicants thoughtlessly. Instead, why don't engineering teams save time and energy by articulating their specific engineering values, and sharing that information up front? Be honest. Say divisive things. This will allow job-seeke…

> Be honest. Say divisive things ... get sued or prosecuted by the EEOC. There are reasons things are stated in a certain way and the net has to be cast wider than necessary. First fix the landscape of U.S. labor law, and then a discussion of efficiency and values can be productive

You're basically implying that all your controversial opinions are borderline racist/sexist/ageist.

There are lots of things that would attract/repel a candidate from a company that aren't discriminatory. "At our current stage of growth, we value speed over reliability," "we measure employee productivity," "we work early/late," "people here do/don't wear suits," "we do/don't do code reviews," "we do/don't do Scrum," just to name a few.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#549

Post by einarfd » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 8:58 PM UTC

beat wrote: post #502

einarfd wrote: post #475

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As I said earlier, getting someone to prof read your text, and catch all the problems is not as easy as you would think. Nor is getting a spell checker to catch all your errors. I have to admit I thought I was done with getting graded on spelling in high school. I haven't seen anything on either side of the fence, in my carer to indicate that some spelling mistakes is enough to cost people an opportunity. But I'm sur…

One of my best friends has a MD and an MBA degree. He currently manages a $100M investment portfolio. We chat online almost daily. He is, by far, the worst speller I know. Even after 20+ years of online conversation, I can barely understand what he's saying sometimes. He also passes bits of professional writing past me for validation, usually to check his intent. His professional writing is always perfectly spelled,…

So your argument is that your rich friend can hire people to prof read his writing. So everyone else can do that to?

That does sound like a solution that will work, but maybe not practical for everyone?

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#550

Post by 52-6F-62 » Tue, Oct 31, 2017, 9:00 PM UTC

psyc wrote: post #485

52-6F-62 wrote: post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Do you think the difference now is that the market is more saturated with developers since it started to become a little more of a hot-ticket, and carries less of the old 'nerd' stigma? Also, I'm curious about how you managed to even get your foot in the door at such large organizations and not just get swept out in a filter at the gate. I'm assuming of course that such large companies employ some kind of application…

I never perceived there to be any degree filter at the BigCos, or less so than at narrower software companies. In house recruiters from every big5 have contacted me regularly through LinkedIn for as long as I can remember, and still do.

I guess that's one reason to keep my profile up-to-date, then.