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Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

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Re: Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

#31

Post by watwut »

mfoy_ wrote: post #16
oconnore wrote: post #9

I'm totally confident that we could replicate Amsterdam in any US city if we wanted to. But before we get there, I need an article about what to do about the fact that so many of my fellow Denver Coloradans hate : bike lanes, buses, trains, places to live, sidewalks, wind turbines, solar panels (but also normal road maintenance and traffic). It's like there is a conscious effort to create more smog and traffic jams.…

Call me cynical, but: Anything that threatens the current way of life, the current status quo, or is representative of a school of thought that clashes with the aforementioned can cause cognitive dissonance. Simple as that. Many people don't really believe that driving is wrong, or harmful. But supporting radical infrastructure changes to accommodate an alternative means admitting to that to a further extent that mos…

Driving is neither wrong nor harmful. And if you want that bike acceptance, maybe talk about advantages without framing everyone else as "bad". If you do, you are guaranteed to create yet another pointless culture war instead of damm bike lane.

Re: Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

#32

Post by Fricken »

everdev wrote: post #10

Culture helps a lot. In the US bikes are seen as an annoyance by many drivers. I was in Amsterdam this summer and without much knowledge of the city, found it easy, safe and fun to get around by bike. Went to Paris and Barcelona as well and didn't feel as comfortable on a bike in either of those cities.

Culture is slow to change. The Netherlands has been nurturing bike culture since the 70s, and it's only recently that cycling's modal share of the transportation pie hit 48% in Amsterdam.

Cycling saw a big popularity explosion in North America as well in the 70s, but we quickly came to our senses and opted to triple the obesity rate instead.

Re: Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

#33

Post by sampo »

ballenf wrote: post #18
ced wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Montreal is one of North America's top city for biking and has one of the worst climates for it. People adjust in all kinds of ways. It's mostly about density and culture IMO.

Cold is much easier to handle on a bike than heat/humidity. You can wear warmer clothes and take them off at work, but you usually can't shower and change into a new set of clothes.

Is it common that American workplaces don't have showers?

Re: Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

#34

Post by vvanders »

the_gastropod wrote: post #20
vvanders wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because most us roads aren't safe for biking. Just a couple weeks ago I was heading down 101, 55mph with blind curves and came around the corner to a pack of bikes doing 5mph uphill. I managed to slow down in time but the people behind me almost lost it. I don't know if they had a deathwish or what but I can't imagine why they thought biking on 101 was a good idea.

This is victim blaming. If it was a stalled car that you nearly ran into, whose fault would it be? Clearly, yours. If you are traveling so fast that you cannot stop at the limits of your vision, you are diving dangerously. Full stop.

> If you are traveling so fast that you cannot stop at the limits of your vision ...

I could stop just fine, I'm worried about the idiots behind me.

Taking the moral highground doesn't help if you end up dead in the end. There's a ton of motorhomes, boats and equipment trailers on these roads. Even at 35mph they may not be able to stop in time when they are towing ~15-20k GVW.

There's a large difference between being rear ended in a car and rear ended on a bicycle. One is engineered to do everything to keep you alive, the other ends up with you plastered across someone's bumper.

The solution is to build these roads to be safe, however riding on them in their current state just makes the roads more dangerous for everyone.

Re: Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

#35

Post by maxerickson »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #29
ballenf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cold is much easier to handle on a bike than heat/humidity. You can wear warmer clothes and take them off at work, but you usually can't shower and change into a new set of clothes.

I have to somewhat disagree. I feel so uncomfortable biking in thick clothes and layers, and you absolutely have to cuff up your pant leg to pedal anyway, so cold wind feels awful. Not to mention pedaling through snow/slush if you're on the side of the road is very hard.

Lots of commuter bikes have chain guards. And with better infrastructure, the roadside slush is less of a thing.

Re: Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

#36

Post by sampo »

PascLeRasc wrote: post #29
ballenf wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cold is much easier to handle on a bike than heat/humidity. You can wear warmer clothes and take them off at work, but you usually can't shower and change into a new set of clothes.

I have to somewhat disagree. I feel so uncomfortable biking in thick clothes and layers, and you absolutely have to cuff up your pant leg to pedal anyway, so cold wind feels awful. Not to mention pedaling through snow/slush if you're on the side of the road is very hard.

> pedaling through snow/slush if you're on the side of the road is very hard.

Cities with good biking infrastructure also have plow trucks to keep the roads and bike paths clean on snowy mornings.

Re: Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

#38

Post by bryanlarsen »

ballenf wrote: post #18
ced wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Montreal is one of North America's top city for biking and has one of the worst climates for it. People adjust in all kinds of ways. It's mostly about density and culture IMO.

Cold is much easier to handle on a bike than heat/humidity. You can wear warmer clothes and take them off at work, but you usually can't shower and change into a new set of clothes.

You can't just wear warmer clothes on a cold day on a bike. If you do that, you'll start sweating, and that sweat can freeze, which can drop your core body temperature dangerously fast.

So you want to layer your clothing so you can take off layers as you warm up; or you can just adjust your pace to prevent sweating.

Re: Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

#39

Post by rockostrich »

vvanders wrote: post #15
everdev wrote: post #10

Culture helps a lot. In the US bikes are seen as an annoyance by many drivers. I was in Amsterdam this summer and without much knowledge of the city, found it easy, safe and fun to get around by bike. Went to Paris and Barcelona as well and didn't feel as comfortable on a bike in either of those cities.

That's because most us roads aren't safe for biking. Just a couple weeks ago I was heading down 101, 55mph with blind curves and came around the corner to a pack of bikes doing 5mph uphill. I managed to slow down in time but the people behind me almost lost it. I don't know if they had a deathwish or what but I can't imagine why they thought biking on 101 was a good idea.

All roads that allow bikes (pretty much anything except a highway) are safe for biking because they don't have minimum speed limits and you should always be prepared to stop. At least, that's the case in states that have laws like Massachusetts that say "There is no law that requires bicycles to ride as far to the right as practicable". It may be different for your state though.

Re: Why Amsterdam Works So Well for Bikes

#40

Post by Brakenshire »

oconnore wrote: post #9

I'm totally confident that we could replicate Amsterdam in any US city if we wanted to. But before we get there, I need an article about what to do about the fact that so many of my fellow Denver Coloradans hate : bike lanes, buses, trains, places to live, sidewalks, wind turbines, solar panels (but also normal road maintenance and traffic). It's like there is a conscious effort to create more smog and traffic jams.…

I think this is going to be very difficult in much of the US, to be honest, simply because of the density of settlement. European towns and cities have been constrained by their historic footprint, and the car has been clumsily imposed on that, but most of the US has been built from scratch around the car. You cannot serve low-density suburbs, built for cars, using bikes or public transport, the people need to move or the houses need to be redeveloped at a higher density.

Although, one of the interesting things about the US is that a lot of the population of cities lives outside the city jurisdiction, for a variety of reasons including tax avoidance. The people who actually need to be persuaded aren't the people who drive into the city from the suburbs every day, they are the people who live inside the actual city, and those people need to make a judgment whether the benefits outweigh the drawbacks of this kind of approach (the risk being that the suburbs will simply develop new centres and bypass the city).

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