Silicon has been used in batteries for several years now in low amounts. It hasn't seen larger use because it expands by 400% when filled, compared to graphite's ~12% expansion. Most attempts to solve this have been extremely complicated; nanopatterning, nanowires, graphene coatings to literally compress the silicon metal, etc. It's one of the most promising avenues for battery tech (silicon anodes alone may be able…
Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
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Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
#12Silicon has been used in batteries for several years now in low amounts. It hasn't seen larger use because it expands by 400% when filled, compared to graphite's ~12% expansion. Most attempts to solve this have been extremely complicated; nanopatterning, nanowires, graphene coatings to literally compress the silicon metal, etc. It's one of the most promising avenues for battery tech (silicon anodes alone may be able…
> that commercial cells are That has been the conclusion of hundreds of these battery technology stories. We still haven't seen one these to work out yet in the past 20 years.
There's certainly an unending flood of hyped up articles about new experiments, but all of those have some kind of caveat that's glossed over. Cost, manufacturability, or performance. One is always missing. They're usually pop articles or university releases that misunderstand, misquote and play up the papers involved.
This is a release from a private company that hits all three of the important targets. Those are pretty reliable, normally. Flow batteries are an exception, but that's because the professor behind that is way overenthusiastic about them and needs large-scale funding. He's kind of notorious for overpromising; I remember a story by a student under him who used his calculations to derive the scale at which flow batteries became economical and found it was an order of magnitude bigger than a power plant. The professor himself had set up those equations but never actually done them to figure out how big the battery needed to be.
Leydenjar comes off as very conservative in this release. They're announcing an insane improvement, literally decades ahead of when it was expected. Most people would have announced this in coin cells but they waited until they had developed a mass production machine and tested it, and they seem to have replicated those results. Even if this costs 3x more than normal batteries there will be huge demand for it. The battery in an iphone costs $3. Apple wouldn't even blink if a 50% better battery cost $60.
These guys are saying that they pretty much have a product already. Pouch cells make up the majority of batteries that aren't in laptops, teslas or power tools. They've got a manufacturing machine BUILT already and appear to expect a high cycle life. I'm pretty inclined to believe them if they say they can make these affordably.
Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
#13There is a recurrent pite patter of amazing new battery technologies, but of course the question is it can it be mass produced. Are there any good websites to gauge battery development progress as opposed to the vital, but often ephemeral research progress.
The article addresses that: "These discoveries usually concern materials that can only be produced in a laboratory environment on a very small scale. What makes our invention so promising is that the technology for mass production of this material is already within reach due to its similarity to an existing production process for solar cells."
Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
#14Silicon has been used in batteries for several years now in low amounts. It hasn't seen larger use because it expands by 400% when filled, compared to graphite's ~12% expansion. Most attempts to solve this have been extremely complicated; nanopatterning, nanowires, graphene coatings to literally compress the silicon metal, etc. It's one of the most promising avenues for battery tech (silicon anodes alone may be able…
Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
#15Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article addresses that: "These discoveries usually concern materials that can only be produced in a laboratory environment on a very small scale. What makes our invention so promising is that the technology for mass production of this material is already within reach due to its similarity to an existing production process for solar cells."
I have to admit I'm a bit concerned about the amount of cost savings that can be realized by building it with the same methods as solar cells . Even with the precipitous drop in solar cell prices over the past few years they still aren't cheap.
Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
#16Earlier quoted context omitted.
I have to admit I'm a bit concerned about the amount of cost savings that can be realized by building it with the same methods as solar cells . Even with the precipitous drop in solar cell prices over the past few years they still aren't cheap.
Sure but the question is, how much of that silicon do you need for your house vs. your car battery.
Full solution - all with Silicon.
If that's possible - and they can improve the cycle count... or do it cheap enough to make up for a low cycle count... or all of it - improve it, make it cheaper AND under one roof?
Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
#17There is a recurrent pite patter of amazing new battery technologies, but of course the question is it can it be mass produced. Are there any good websites to gauge battery development progress as opposed to the vital, but often ephemeral research progress.
They steadily make their way into the mainstream. Silicon has been used in batteries for several years now, in low amounts. Usually the new "big news" comes with a significant gotcha. For silicon this has always been the cycle life. Silicon hasn't seen larger use because it expands by 400% when filled, compared to graphite's ~12% expansion. This though- this is very cool. If they've actually demonstrated 100 cycles i…
Here are some I've thought of, please suggest others:
1. Cost of raw materials - even if the tech improves, will it still be expensive?
2. Charge/Discharge cycle count - thermal and mechanical stresses
3. Power to weight ratio; power to cost ratio
4. Manufacturability - does it require novel manufacturing techniques or can it be integrated into an existing product line
5. Round trip energy losses
6. Safety
Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
#18Earlier quoted context omitted.
The article addresses that: "These discoveries usually concern materials that can only be produced in a laboratory environment on a very small scale. What makes our invention so promising is that the technology for mass production of this material is already within reach due to its similarity to an existing production process for solar cells."
I have to admit I'm a bit concerned about the amount of cost savings that can be realized by building it with the same methods as solar cells . Even with the precipitous drop in solar cell prices over the past few years they still aren't cheap.
By what metric..? The amount of energy and power involved in the two uses is completely different. Do you happen to know the bulk cost of silicon, or how much silicon is used in solar cells, or how much of a solar cells cost it makes up, or what process is similar?
You're not doing much more than a kind of free association. For actual context, spheroidal graphite powder is up to $10,000/tonne[1] and metallurgical silicon is around a quarter of that[2].
[1] http://www.mining.com/web/battery-grade-graphite-set-for-rec...
[2] https://www.metalbulletin.com/Article/3208513/Silicon-prices...
Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
#19Earlier quoted context omitted.
Sure but the question is, how much of that silicon do you need for your house vs. your car battery.
No... the question is how easy will it be for "Solar" companies to slide into becoming "Solar & Battery" companies. Full solution - all with Silicon. If that's possible - and they can improve the cycle count... or do it cheap enough to make up for a low cycle count... or all of it - improve it, make it cheaper AND under one roof?
Even if that were true, this is a release by a company... they aren't going to give away their technology for other people to use.
Re: Batteries with 50 per cent more energy with pure silicon anode
#20Earlier quoted context omitted.
> that commercial cells are That has been the conclusion of hundreds of these battery technology stories. We still haven't seen one these to work out yet in the past 20 years.
I assure you, they do regularly. A123 is the most well known example, but the vast majority of new developments don't involve a new company being formed. Making batteries is hard and few researchers want to build companies. Instead these developments quietly slip into commercial formulations as continuous, incremental improvements. There's certainly an unending flood of hyped up articles about new experiments, but al…
Apple seems content to merely maintain the status quo of barely a days battery life. I would not expect them to lead the way on this front.