Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions. • Hacker News Board

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#11

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:27 PM UTC

ajscherer wrote: post #8

benofsky wrote: post #5

In response to software which requires a lot of development time to create, specifically tax software or games, RMS says: > The reason I don't use nonfree software is that it would take away my freedom. I don't want to let that happen. So I don't consider installing nonfree program, even as an possible option. I treat them as poison. I hope that you will too. This man lives in an imaginary world where no one has to m…

It doesn't look like he said nobody should make any money. He said that nobody should install non-free software, which if everyone did as RMS wanted (they won't) would imply that one couldn't make money selling non-free software. Why is it that so many people believe they have a God-given right to make money by doing a certain activity ? I see this same thinking all the time in arguments about the future of newspaper…

[deleted]

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#12

Post by Locke1689 » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:28 PM UTC

benofsky wrote: post #5

In response to software which requires a lot of development time to create, specifically tax software or games, RMS says: > The reason I don't use nonfree software is that it would take away my freedom. I don't want to let that happen. So I don't consider installing nonfree program, even as an possible option. I treat them as poison. I hope that you will too. This man lives in an imaginary world where no one has to m…

Frankly, I believe that this tone and rhetoric devalues some of the great things he has done.

I completely disagree. He has certain values and political goals which he believes very strongly in -- and espouses them aggressively. This is true for all of us. I personally disagree with him (I am willing to give up some of my freedom for money), but I would never say that that diminishes his accomplishments and contributions.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#13

Post by chc » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:29 PM UTC

ajscherer wrote: post #8

benofsky wrote: post #5

In response to software which requires a lot of development time to create, specifically tax software or games, RMS says: > The reason I don't use nonfree software is that it would take away my freedom. I don't want to let that happen. So I don't consider installing nonfree program, even as an possible option. I treat them as poison. I hope that you will too. This man lives in an imaginary world where no one has to m…

It doesn't look like he said nobody should make any money. He said that nobody should install non-free software, which if everyone did as RMS wanted (they won't) would imply that one couldn't make money selling non-free software. Why is it that so many people believe they have a God-given right to make money by doing a certain activity ? I see this same thinking all the time in arguments about the future of newspaper…

Only in the same way that carmakers would find another way to make money if suddenly everybody stopped buying nonfree cars — they would stop making their unprofitable product and start making, I don't know, tractors or something. For people who like cars, this is not really a good situation.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#14

Post by logic » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:33 PM UTC

I expect most responses here will be pretty negative, and I honestly can't defend his position because our politics differ so greatly (and his stance spins directly out of those philosophical roots). Nor can I forgive his personal attitude and general arrogance over the years, although it has softened significantly of late.

But I'll give the man a grudging amount of respect: he hasn't budged one inch on his position toward "freedom to tinker" as it relates to software in the entire time I've been aware of his work. And, more than that, he walks the walk; he won't urge anyone to do something or take on a position that he's not willing to jump into wholeheartedly himself.

He's a fundamentalist, but any successful movement needs people with "clarity of purpose". He has it in spades, allowing many of the rest of us to be rather more pragmatic.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#15

Post by ZeroGravitas » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:33 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #11

ajscherer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like he said nobody should make any money. He said that nobody should install non-free software, which if everyone did as RMS wanted (they won't) would imply that one couldn't make money selling non-free software. Why is it that so many people believe they have a God-given right to make money by doing a certain activity ? I see this same thinking all the time in arguments about the future of newspaper…

[deleted]

You might want to read question 4, where his answer says the exact opposite of what you are claiming, and points to this article for further information:

http://www.gnu.org/philosophy/selling.html

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#16

Post by avar » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:34 PM UTC

benofsky wrote: post #5

In response to software which requires a lot of development time to create, specifically tax software or games, RMS says: > The reason I don't use nonfree software is that it would take away my freedom. I don't want to let that happen. So I don't consider installing nonfree program, even as an possible option. I treat them as poison. I hope that you will too. This man lives in an imaginary world where no one has to m…

That's completely wrong. You're fundamentally misunderstanding what the free software movement is about. Ultimately it's a sort of grassroots consumer protection movement, not a bunch of hippies trying to abolish money.

Stallman believes that you should vote with your feet and avoid using non-free software, and that if we all did this for everything there would be no space for non-free software in the market.

That doesn't mean that you can't sell software. The FSF has always sold copies of their software (I know because I've bought some). All of their licenses allow you to sell software, they consider any license that doesn't allow this to be non-free.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#17

Post by milesf » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:37 PM UTC

logic wrote: post #14

I expect most responses here will be pretty negative, and I honestly can't defend his position because our politics differ so greatly (and his stance spins directly out of those philosophical roots). Nor can I forgive his personal attitude and general arrogance over the years, although it has softened significantly of late. But I'll give the man a grudging amount of respect: he hasn't budged one inch on his position…

Stallman is like a goalpost. He's as far over to one side as you can be. We need people like him since we all tend to measure our views and beliefs in reference to others.

I just wouldn't want to hang out with the guy. I say "Linux" and buy proprietary software. I'm sure he wouldn't want to hang with me either, but I do respect him.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#18

Post by ohyes » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:38 PM UTC

benofsky wrote: post #5

In response to software which requires a lot of development time to create, specifically tax software or games, RMS says: > The reason I don't use nonfree software is that it would take away my freedom. I don't want to let that happen. So I don't consider installing nonfree program, even as an possible option. I treat them as poison. I hope that you will too. This man lives in an imaginary world where no one has to m…

I think it is actually the opposite of that.

> You have a choice between deserving a reward and not getting a material reward, and getting one but not deserving it.

I think that RMS sees our current society as intrinsically flawed with regard to how it is that we reward people for their good and hard work (and the behavior patterns associated with that work). It is not that he lives in a world where no one has to make any money.

He is a tremendous hacker and has analyzed the system. He has come to the conclusion that the system in which we live is flawed. The way that you (generally) make money is by hurting other people.

Free software is based on the idea that we should change what behavior we reward. The idea being that proprietary software inhibits freedom of a computer literate (programming literate) person. We should not reward this behavior.

'Making money is evil' is a tremendous oversimplification of the philosophy. If everyone adopted the free software maxim of not using proprietary software, it would be inevitable that society would become extremely computer literate, and/or we would develop a way of compensating people for working on free software projects.

This might be putting the cart before the horse, however. What is really needed is a way to reward people handsomely for working on free software projects. Then it would slowly become a norm to have access to the source code, and society (maybe) follow.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#19

Post by ajscherer » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:39 PM UTC

[deleted] wrote: post #11

ajscherer wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It doesn't look like he said nobody should make any money. He said that nobody should install non-free software, which if everyone did as RMS wanted (they won't) would imply that one couldn't make money selling non-free software. Why is it that so many people believe they have a God-given right to make money by doing a certain activity ? I see this same thinking all the time in arguments about the future of newspaper…

[deleted]

You're not a bad person for wanting that. If your argument is that he is insulting you, and that is wrong, then I agree with you.

My point was that people should only expect to make money by doing something other people are willing to pay for, whether they love it or hate it, and whether it is hard or easy as hell. It seemed like you were saying programmers deserve to make money just because they work hard.

Re: Richard Stallman answers Reddit's top 25 questions.

#20

Post by rimantas » Thu, Jul 29, 2010, 9:39 PM UTC

avar wrote: post #16

benofsky wrote: post #5

In response to software which requires a lot of development time to create, specifically tax software or games, RMS says: > The reason I don't use nonfree software is that it would take away my freedom. I don't want to let that happen. So I don't consider installing nonfree program, even as an possible option. I treat them as poison. I hope that you will too. This man lives in an imaginary world where no one has to m…

That's completely wrong. You're fundamentally misunderstanding what the free software movement is about. Ultimately it's a sort of grassroots consumer protection movement, not a bunch of hippies trying to abolish money. Stallman believes that you should vote with your feet and avoid using non-free software, and that if we all did this for everything there would be no space for non-free software in the market. That do…

I am glad I have a freedom to vote with my wallet and buy software I like.