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We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

danluu.com

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Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#181

Post by hvidgaard »

brango wrote: post #117
hvidgaard wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been at the other end of that scale. I've had a fair few candidates that have used 10 different stacks, but wasn't truly good at any of them. On the other hand, I've had candidates with 10 years of C#, but used it in different settings, web, backend, actor based system, ect, and they blew the socks of most other candidates. What I look for, is that they show versatility and depth. The combination is really impor…

Why not ask them to build an anti-gravity device as well while you're at it? I just ask interviewers what the point of these questions is now. If you can't give someone an interview with relevant questions, how can you justify not hiring the candidate? AFAIK at least in the UK candidates have a legal right to know why they weren't selected to make sure it wasn't based on prejudices, etc. So if your response is "you d…

At that stage we're past a verbal phone screening, 1. interview, and they've been selected for the last round of interviews and they know before hand what the nature of the interview will be, including the "deep end of the pool" question. It is far and away the best way I've found to see how well they can adapt to new things, which is important to us.

But of course, you assume it's not relevant, and that I'm asking them to do the impossible.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#182

Post by alien_at_work »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #86

It would be nice if the process were a little more transparent. If people just knew that a company rejected them for reason X, that would make a huge difference. If X were stupid, they'd know they missed a bullet. If X were rooted in a misunderstanding, they'd have a chance to clear it up. There is so much side-channel information used in the corporate hiring process, and it gets mixed-up in HR far more often than an…

I think the issue is the massive, massive power imbalance. Sure, as a worker you would like those things, but an employer has no reason to care. Even if they make a mix-up there are plenty of other candidates for the same position. Maybe they get someone actually worse but they have no way to know that and no reason to care.

For the employee it's a rejection from 1 out of 1-10 companies they are talking to, so it's a big and personal deal. For the company it's just 1 out of probably hundreds of candidates for 1 out of possibly hundreds of jobs.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#183

Post by falcolas »

matwood wrote: post #135
driverdan wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Except all of those companies put an unreasonable amount of weight on degrees. Good luck getting Google to talk to you if you didn't graduate a top collage, let alone not having a degree.

I didn’t graduate from a top college and google has pinged me numerous times to interview. I always turn them down because I like my company and do not want to move. I may also fail the google interview, but they certainly talk to me.

I didn't graduate from college, period, yet recruiters talk to me. It's funny how quickly they backpedal their interview offers when I mention that, however.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#184

Post by hvidgaard »

ZanyProgrammer wrote: post #104
hvidgaard wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been at the other end of that scale. I've had a fair few candidates that have used 10 different stacks, but wasn't truly good at any of them. On the other hand, I've had candidates with 10 years of C#, but used it in different settings, web, backend, actor based system, ect, and they blew the socks of most other candidates. What I look for, is that they show versatility and depth. The combination is really impor…

"Then I throw them in the deep end of the pool to see how they cope in the unknown." That's a good sign that the tech interview process is very broken.

> That's a good sign that the tech interview process is very broken

That could be the case, or maybe at that stage we're past a verbal phone screening, 1. interview, and they've been selected for the last round of interviews. They know before hand what the nature of the interview will be, including the "deep end of the pool" question. It is far and away the best way I've found to see how well they can adapt to new things, which is important to us.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#185

Post by DarronWyke »

demygale wrote: post #139
bambataa wrote: post #128

What strikes me about this is how little weight recruiters put on referrals from current employees. I would have thought that being recommended by an internal employee would get you an initial interview at the very least. Surely a trusted employee’s recommendation is more reliable than whatever random sift the recruiters have. Does anyone with experience of recruitment have any stats on how successful referred applic…

I don't think recruiters keep metrics on anything. Once the candidate is hired, they consider their job done. Companies appear unwilling to measure recruiting and employee success, so the inefficient hiring processes continue.

Depends upon the type of recruiter. An external one will likely have a few follow-ups, because it's how they get paid. An internal one, however, won't bother unless the company is excessively on the huggy-feely side.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#186

Post by nzmsv »

ProAm wrote: post #152
chirau wrote: post #9

I disagree with this article, to some extent at least. Perhaps it's specific for trendy companies and startups. Most of which are just looking for the next shiny object, true. However, when you look at companies that move the needle in different industries, companies that have repute, market share and profitability, they couldn't care less what is trending these days. They look for domain expertise and excellence. I…

You have never worked with someone from Oracle. They do not try to hire remotely the best, they hire cheap. Anyone that can churn out barely functional code, use their customers to functional test it, and take often half a fiscal year to provide a bug fix for you. Oracle is now more of a technical holding company than a software company, aside from their db, they merely pickup/purchase new companies and wring them ou…

Counterpoint: I currently work with someone from Oracle, and they are one of the best programmers I know. "Usually terrible" doesn't mean "always terrible", which is the point of the article.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#187

Post by Jtsummers »

Datenstrom wrote: post #122
ptero wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I assume you are talking about US undergraduate degree (if not, can you clarify). If so, most good colleges give you ample opportunities for additional learning -- go to grad classes, do research -- those avenues are usually very easy to open. I probably agree that for each student at least one of those 4 years is usually wasted; but this is different than whole program being a waste for a person.

Yes the US undergraduate degree. I have gotten into some research and got picked up for an exceptional internship which have been good. It doesn't change that I could have passed out of all the actual curriculum on day one though. I guess "community taught" would be better than "self taught" since I learned from so many people online. But I had been programming for 10 years before school, and while I was in the milit…

If you're taking MOOCs from MIT, Stanford, UNSW and others can you really say that university CS curricula taught you nothing? They probably taught you quite a bit since, well, you took their courses.

You were just overprepared for an undergraduate degree by the time you got around to trying for it. For anyone else taking a similar path, specifically the military part, you can often knock out an associates degree with that amount of military experience. Do it, you can skip most of the core curriculum and focus on the CS part and be done in 2-3 years (less if summer courses are available) and be in grad school in your 3rd or 4th your of full-time college education.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#188

Post by whostolemyhat »

Lxr wrote: post #136

I just want to say that I absolutely love this no-frills type of page - tapping the link on mobile and instantly getting nothing but content is such a pleasant surprise!

I find it really difficult to read on a laptop though, due to the long lines.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#189

Post by Garph »

ProAm wrote: post #152
chirau wrote: post #9

I disagree with this article, to some extent at least. Perhaps it's specific for trendy companies and startups. Most of which are just looking for the next shiny object, true. However, when you look at companies that move the needle in different industries, companies that have repute, market share and profitability, they couldn't care less what is trending these days. They look for domain expertise and excellence. I…

You have never worked with someone from Oracle. They do not try to hire remotely the best, they hire cheap. Anyone that can churn out barely functional code, use their customers to functional test it, and take often half a fiscal year to provide a bug fix for you. Oracle is now more of a technical holding company than a software company, aside from their db, they merely pickup/purchase new companies and wring them ou…

It's fun to set Oracle up as a punching bag, but this sentiment is what Danluu is discouraging in the blog post.

If a resume came across your desk with Oracle as the primary work experience what would you do?

Can an individual programmer be help culpable for Oracle's issues?

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#190

Post by lostboys67 »

bertil wrote: post #157
lostboys67 wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few years ago I went to AKQA suited and booted - I think I realised that I might be over dressed when on the way a passer by asked me if I knew where the Ivy was :-) The interview was a total bust the guy that interviewed me was wearing a t shirt so scruffy I would only wear it to do the gardening.

I’ve seen a lot of those t-shirts and generally what is printed on them is the important part: a memorable hackathon, a cool product, etc. For an outsider, it’s often tricky to tell. My favourite: the “I’ve done 100 interviews and the only thing I got was this t-shirt.” t-shirt at Facebook, with the 100 stroke-through to read 200. If looking really tattered, you know you are talking to someone who’s probably done a l…

It was plain one and looked like he had spilled a burrito down it - he was also totally clueless about the role he was nominally recruiting for and seemed not to know any of the cool stuff AKQA had done
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