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We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

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Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#161

Post by humanrebar »

jstewartmobile wrote: post #153
wolfgke wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If people just knew that a company rejected them for reason X, that would make a huge difference. Give a thanks to the discrimination laws. Companies don't want to give any leads for getting sued.

Discrimination laws are probably just a drop in the bucket. Once you start getting into drug tests, references, background checks, credit reports, reservists, social media, etc., it's suicidal to share any more than the bare minimum. In the US, we have a so-called right to privacy, but that's not really true with employers today. The information asymmetry is both astounding and obscene.

> reservists

Meaning discrimination against reservists in the armed forces because of their service requirements? Or discrimination because the employer doesn't like the armed forces?

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#162

Post by psyc »

driverdan wrote: post #83
chirau wrote: post #9

I disagree with this article, to some extent at least. Perhaps it's specific for trendy companies and startups. Most of which are just looking for the next shiny object, true. However, when you look at companies that move the needle in different industries, companies that have repute, market share and profitability, they couldn't care less what is trending these days. They look for domain expertise and excellence. I…

Except all of those companies put an unreasonable amount of weight on degrees. Good luck getting Google to talk to you if you didn't graduate a top collage, let alone not having a degree.

When Microsoft hired me in 2006 they didn’t even ask about my lack of degree. I’ve also interviewed at Google and Amazon. Amazon didn’t ask either. Google probably asked, but it didn’t disqualify me.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#163

Post by emodendroket »

dx034 wrote: post #19
arethuza wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I fear I might if they continued to wear something overly formal at work" Why would you be bothered about what someone wears at work - formal or informal?

Can be important for anyone with client contact. Even if you don't care what people wear, external clients will react differently depending on what you wear. It could be that you specifically don't want to wear suit to give the impression that you're a dynamic start-up but in the end clothing always matters.

Programmer is rarely a client-facing role and I think the odds that someone overdressed can successfully dress down, if requested, are a little bit better than the opposite.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#164

Post by cableshaft »

Datenstrom wrote: post #109
Delmania wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm sure you don't know everything. Looking at your profile, I see the words "technician" so I am thinking you were trained at some point.

Yes the Navy "trained" me by saying "here are 20,000 pages of documentation on the E-2 Airborne Early Warning aircraft avionics, now go fix it". That has nothing to do with my CS studies, of which I have learned nothing from college and could have CLEPed a BS degree on day one if it was possible and moved on to a masters where I should have been initially placed. > I'm sure you don't know everything. I never claimed…

How many classes did you take in college? Because my first few CS classes I didn't learn a whole lot from either. It wasn't really until the 200 and 300 level classes that I started learning anything substantial that I hadn't picked up on my own beforehand.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#165

Post by jstewartmobile »

humanrebar wrote: post #161
jstewartmobile wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Discrimination laws are probably just a drop in the bucket. Once you start getting into drug tests, references, background checks, credit reports, reservists, social media, etc., it's suicidal to share any more than the bare minimum. In the US, we have a so-called right to privacy, but that's not really true with employers today. The information asymmetry is both astounding and obscene.

> reservists Meaning discrimination against reservists in the armed forces because of their service requirements? Or discrimination because the employer doesn't like the armed forces?

Service requirements. Even employers who are vets are terrified of this one. Hire a guy, he gets deployed just a week after he starts, you have to keep his seat warm, then when he's back several months later he's taken a job somewhere else...

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#166

Post by astura »

brightball wrote: post #92
astura wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How silly. Level of interest [in doing unpaid work] doesn't mean a damn thing as far as skill level and work ethic are concerned. Some of the best programmers I've ever met were the 9-5 types and the absolute worst of the worst programmer I've even known spent all his free time writing code. Once you get past 30 it's difficult to spend all your free time doing unpaid work even if you wanted to.

If you’re past 30 you’ve probably been programming for at least 8 years. If you’ve never touched another language...yes...that is a concern.

Concern for who?

How old are you? I'm closer to 40 than I am 30 and I don't put projects I worked on when I was 22 on my resume. If I can't remember the details, it's not going on my resume. If I can't give good/interesting answers when asked about that project, its not going on my resume. I don't want to fill my resume with a lot of irrelevant crap since I have real experience to put on my resume.

I've worked with many languages both professionally and casually, probably over a dozen over the years. I only put the ones I have mastered on my resume.

If I were conducting an interview for a mid-level position (and I do) and I asked a candidate about their experience in Rust, which is on their resume, and it's anything but over a year of professional or semi-professional development, then I'm going to assume the rest of their resume is just as bogus. A weekend hack-a-thon doesn't "count" as "experience."

As someone who actually has a say in hiring decisions, I'm not going to think highly of a candidate with over 5 years of experience who puts code they only spent the better part of a weekend on on their resume. That means they don't understand what experience actually is.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#167

Post by emodendroket »

wolfgke wrote: post #93
jstewartmobile wrote: post #86

It would be nice if the process were a little more transparent. If people just knew that a company rejected them for reason X, that would make a huge difference. If X were stupid, they'd know they missed a bullet. If X were rooted in a misunderstanding, they'd have a chance to clear it up. There is so much side-channel information used in the corporate hiring process, and it gets mixed-up in HR far more often than an…

> If people just knew that a company rejected them for reason X, that would make a huge difference. Give a thanks to the discrimination laws. Companies don't want to give any leads for getting sued.

It has little to do with that. There's really very little risk in giving feedback like "we didn't like your code" or "you had the wrong kind of experience for us." The bigger problem is that a lot of candidates take this as an opportunity to dispute the reasons, which is not generally desired.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#168

Post by emodendroket »

wolfgke wrote: post #125
freddie_mercury wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The practice is exactly the same in countries that aren't the U.S. And countries that don't even have discrimination laws. The fact that companies behave the same in the presence of dramatically varying legal norms suggests that your belief that discrimination laws are the problem is baseless.

At least I know that in Germany before the "Allgemeines Gleichbehandlungsgesetz (AGG)" (general equality law) was passed, companies were more open about reasons. Since this law was passed, any openness can easily lead to a lawsuite against the company where the company has to prove that they did not discriminate against the candidate. Indeed when the law was passed there were lots of lawsuits of really untuitable can…

US discrimination laws are not that strong. Unless you're doing something idiotic like telling people "sorry, we didn't hire you because of your religion" it's hard to win. Of course anybody can sue for any reason of they want, though.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#169

Post by emodendroket »

drchickensalad wrote: post #133
bambataa wrote: post #128

What strikes me about this is how little weight recruiters put on referrals from current employees. I would have thought that being recommended by an internal employee would get you an initial interview at the very least. Surely a trusted employee’s recommendation is more reliable than whatever random sift the recruiters have. Does anyone with experience of recruitment have any stats on how successful referred applic…

I've always known referrals to do exactly that; guarantee an interview.

Hasn't been my experience submitting them.

Re: We only hire the best means we only hire the trendiest (2016)

#170

Post by emodendroket »

danschumann wrote: post #150

Are there not plenty of companies that hire only older, more experienced people? Such as government entities and large corporations? Seems like we always hear about the pro-youth companies. Perhaps its only silicon valley.

Silicon Valley is an extreme example, but I don't think it's bucking the general trend.
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