If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again • Hacker News Board

Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again

#111

Post by pmorici » Mon, Oct 30, 2017, 4:17 AM UTC

theyregreat wrote: post #68

pmorici wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of prisoners work and they are paid below minimum wage to subsidize there housing cost.

In the US, paying prisoners is technically optional per the 13th amendment loophole. Furthermore, the US has the highest incarceration rate in the world, and combined with for-profit prisons’ political contributions, there are perverse incentives and outright corruption to overprosecute poor and minorities, as evidenced by the skewed prison vs. entire US demographics. And it’s ”their”

Yes, that is the point, they are not paying them fairly and pocketing the difference to subsidize prison costs. Meaning using prisons as an example of UBI being viable isn't a compelling argument.

Pointing out typos like that is boorish.

Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again

#112

Post by mcbruiser4 » Mon, Oct 30, 2017, 6:10 PM UTC

Retric wrote: post #109

uoaei wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not sure why communism was brought into this, but your repetition of that common trope is misinformed. A planned economy theoretically works just fine as long as external adversaries aren't manipulating the global market to your detriment, deliberately excluding you from global bank dealings, and aren't putting a bunch of pressure on you to develop a massive military budget overhead. Without these influences, the inh…

It just a loan if the business is fine. It's only a bail out if they are sinking. I don't mean communism failed because of central economic planning. But, China is a great example of how totalitarianism can survive, but central planning is hard. If it makes you feel better I can point to plenty of US examples. Central planning seems like a good idea, but it's really harder than most assume.

don't forget about corruption and human nature. communism never works in practice because it opens the doors to rampant corruption.

Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again

#113

Post by mcbruiser4 » Mon, Oct 30, 2017, 6:15 PM UTC

jasonlfunk wrote: post #37

> Everyone should get enough money to be able to refuse to work. That way, the incentive is shifted to employers, where it should be. Want someone to do something? Pay them enough to do it. This sounds nice in theory, but how doesn’t this result in price inflation? Not only are you going to be taking a portion of businesses’ profits in taxes, but now you are increasing the cost of labour. And frankly, some jobs suck…

yeah, this results in $200 for a haircut or $500 to get your lawn mowed. pass.

Re: If You Think Basic Income Is “Free Money” or Socialism, Think Again

#114

Post by nkohari » Mon, Oct 30, 2017, 6:41 PM UTC

Simon_says wrote: post #93

nkohari wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In practice, that isn't remotely true. People on the lower end of the income scale (are forced to) spend a much larger percentage of their income in order to meet their basic needs. People on the higher end of the scale spend more on a dollar-by-dollar basis, but a much smaller percentage of their income. Then they save and invest the rest, which also creates more wealth from their existing wealth.

When they save and invest, what do you think happens to that investment eventually? It's converted back into cash and spent, donated, or bequeathed. The fact that there's an intermediate step of investment is irrelevant to the fact that lifetime ingress of value equals lifetime egress of value.

I'm sorry, but that just doesn't make any sense at all. All capital is not eventually spent; otherwise there would be no such thing as generational wealth.

Technically speaking, I guess maybe over the course of the rise and fall of a society what you're saying is true, but I don't think the government would want to wait that long to see some tax revenue.