Live data from Hacker News

If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

geekfeminism.org

41–50 of 96 posts

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#41
The article doesn't really have a point. The title is really the only thing that the article is trying to demonstrate. "Privileged" is a code word in feminist discourse, and is applied to virtually any and every distinction that social beings make.

The overall thrust of the article is to shame—i.e. if you had an opportunity that others didn't have, you should feel guilty about it. It's not clear to me how this kind of discourse moves society forward. Everyone has different opportunities, no one is pretending that poor people have just as easy a time as rich people. If you have a claim to status ("I've been hacking since age 8") that's based on a pre-existing advantage, you should feel guilty for claiming such status.

This type of discourse is not about hacking or hackers or geek culture, it's a discourse that is deeply offended by the very existence of status or distinctions, and has trouble believing that any source of privilege has been earned (unless you happen to have a subaltern identity).

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#42
I am a black male. My father made 30k a year. He could never afford a computer for me but I have been hacking since 10. A computer teacher of mine sent me to see some friends of hers on a "Kids to go work" day and I got an internship out of it. I was there so much (and even sleep there if they would let me) they let me work for a computer. My point is that if your really want to do something you will find a way to do it; that is a true hustlers mentality.

FYI: Im a beast on the basketball court too.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#43
I had early access to computers but never programmed or hacked (besides changing resource files in Mac OS) until taking a formal Pascal class in high school. I remember committing my first crime of copyright infringement, giving the elementary school our copy of Mario Teaches Typing to install in the lab.

As someone who liked computers but didn't start programming until later, I would argue if you started hacking at age 8 you are just a geek (me too), nothing more, nothing less.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#44

The class privilege in hackerland is when Youtube gets bought for a billion dollars because one of the founders is getting married to the daughter of SV royalty, not that your parents could afford a $600 computer in 1985.

Because? Presuming you're referring to Chad Hurley, you think that Google bought YouTube because he married Jim Clark's daughter? Jim Clark, who as far as I can tell, didn't invest in Google, doesn't work for them, and isn't on their board.

Jim Clark got them the investment from Sequoia. Google would have bought them, but the reason they bought them for a billion dollars instead of a hundred million is because of the intertwined social aspect of all the people at Google and Sequoia involved with the deal.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#45
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not denying that class plays a role --- in fact, I think I made that pretty explicit. I'm arguing that "hacking since you were 8 isn't so much a badge of geek cred as it is an artifact of your social class" is a really bad way of making that argument, since hacking since you were 8 actually is a badge of geek cred. If you look, you'll probably find that people who've trained for pro-tennis since early grade schoo…

The tennis players -- they're both, and so are you. The article asks you to accept that you were privileged, and there's nothing evil about that.

I completely agree that I'm privileged (believe me, I've been through this particular debate more times than I can count, since my geek wife grew up in Orchard TX and paid her college tuition as a hotel maid).

Yes. I agree there is a class issue here. I agree so much that I think bad arguments about the class-based glass ceilings are harmful. Why even go to this place, about how committed 8 year olds really are? It's just silly.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#46
I got my first computer (a Commodore 64) when I was around 8 -- my entire family chipped in and it was pretty much the only Christmas present I got that year.

My school had a few Commodore 64s and we got to have one in our class room for a few months. I was instantly interested in computers and read all the computer books we had in the school library. My grade 3 teacher was the one that recommended to my parents that they get me a computer.

If anything in that article is actually true, I think it's ancient history now. Computers are quite literally everywhere now; even those 10 years younger than me were better off. The point about girls and computers is definitely out of date; I have a 13 year old daughter and her and all her friends have constant access to computers.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#47
My Dad purchased his first computer when I was 10. I learned a tremendous amount from my experiences with it, and for that I've always considered myself fortunate. My parents didn't have a lot of money, but they were able to afford a computer and they loved me enough to encourage my interests in it. So in that regard I definitely feel privileged.

Growing up I knew of a few kids who were just as interested in computers but weren't as lucky. They had all the potential in the world, but lacked the same opportunities I had. I was always aware of my "privilege", so I've felt it important over the years to help out in community computer labs and to help deserving kids by giving them older computers when I would get my hands on them.

But that said, I've also known plenty of 'privileged' kids with access to technology at their disposal but had no interest, or took no initiative to learn advanced concepts. For instance, my brothers didn't have the same interest in computers as I did. They were into other things, even though they had just as much access to our parent's computers as me.

I believe the most important factors for developing strong skills in computers (or anything else for that matter) is desire, effort, and dedication. These things don't have a price tag, and are not limited to certain groups of individuals.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#48
post #12

Computer penetration in the US in 2001 was 61% and for the most part, those who didn't have a computer felt that they didn't need one[1]. Most incoming undergrads were 8 in 2000 so I would assert that this argument has no basis going forward. [1 http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2002/03/18/da... ]

how do you figure? I presume that they weren't interviewing school children for the survey. You can hardly say that, because 39% adults thought that a computer was unnecessary, deciding (rightly or wrongly) to not get a PC wouldn't disadvantage their potential hacker children, when compared to hacker children who did have parents who jobs required them to have computers.

The article argues that most hackers are hackers because their parents were wealthy. At some point you must accept that this argument is no longer applies for some generation of hackers and those that follow it. I submit that 10 years ago, economics no longer played a role in whether some one could afford a computer.

Your point could apply to any generation of hackers because it's analogous to "what if some parents didn't let their children use a computer until they were 12?" or "what if some parents didn't allow their children to install a python interpreter?"

Also, you should consider that in 2000 nearly all school children had access to school computers.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#49
Whatever, moar feminist fascism.

I did get my first computer when I was age 8. That was back in 1991 and all I got was nearly 10 year old ZX Spectrum. I guess I WAS privileged, but the privilege was that my parents, although old (mother was 41 when she conceived) and uneducated, they both only have primary schools - father is barely literate, mother heavily dyslectic. But they have seen the future and wanted a piece of it for their kid.

I had the lousiest clothes, the worst shoes and least friends. But I had forward thinking parents and my own computer ever since.

I believe these "its all male conspiracy" radical feminists should spend more time working with younger girls instead of ranting in books and teh webz.

Before you start downvoting me - know that I know what women are capable of. I was raised by one that is a total badass and kept tearing men new ones throughout her life (she was a truck driver back in 70's, etc.). But these whiny girlies need to woman-up and do some work.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#50
Most geeks I know were the BOTTOM of the social class in school and in society, partially because they started programming at 8 or before. Like me they were borderline aspies who were more interested in things than people. The type of person that gets completely obsessed with computers and gaming at a young age tends to be a dorky white guy (but not always). It's just the cards falling where they fall and has nothing do with sexism, racism, or bias. From my life observations, if there is a social bias in society, especially at school age, it is AGAINST kids who program at 8.

That entire post reeks of victimhood. The comments concern me even more, with the constant haranguing about racism, sexism, bias, etc. The entire premise of the piece seems elitist, snooty, and spiteful.

There aren't too many white guys in CS and there aren't too many black guys in the NBA and there aren't too many female kindergarten teachers. It doesn't need fixing. Knock it off with the social engineering and let us be who we are, without being lumped in with another -ism that must be corrected by a central planner.

Post reply on HN