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If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

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21–30 of 96 posts

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#21
post #12

Computer penetration in the US in 2001 was 61% and for the most part, those who didn't have a computer felt that they didn't need one[1]. Most incoming undergrads were 8 in 2000 so I would assert that this argument has no basis going forward. [1 http://sanjose.bizjournals.com/sanjose/stories/2002/03/18/da... ]

how do you figure?

I presume that they weren't interviewing school children for the survey. You can hardly say that, because 39% adults thought that a computer was unnecessary, deciding (rightly or wrongly) to not get a PC wouldn't disadvantage their potential hacker children, when compared to hacker children who did have parents who jobs required them to have computers.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#22
post #14
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've had a computer for a long time, but looking back, when I was 8 I was lower-middle to middle-middle class at best. I say "looking back" because I didn't really realize it at the time, but in hindsight it's pretty clear. My dad bought a Commodore 64 not because he was rolling in filthy upper-class lucre, but because he saw the future coming and made that a priority for himself. And it had been out for a while befo…

The key here is you were able to snag influence from your Dad. Luckily he was bright enough to see the potential and was resourceful which spawned your interest.

I was just thinking some more about this on the same line. If you want to call that privileged, you know, I'm open to that. In fact I'd say arguably this is "more privileged" that merely being rich, which is sometimes oversold.

It's just that I don't feel like I can apologize for this or feel bad. It isn't in anybody's best interest for me to try to pretend this was somehow bad.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#23

The class privilege in hackerland is when Youtube gets bought for a billion dollars because one of the founders is getting married to the daughter of SV royalty, not that your parents could afford a $600 computer in 1985.

Because?

Presuming you're referring to Chad Hurley, you think that Google bought YouTube because he married Jim Clark's daughter?

Jim Clark, who as far as I can tell, didn't invest in Google, doesn't work for them, and isn't on their board.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#24
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice job with the logical fallacies. First, just because you're well off doesn't require you to become a programmer or a hacker, the author is not claiming that. However if you were so inclined, you immediately have a leg up on others due to the circumstances you find yourself in, and the resources you have available to you. Denying that just seems stupid. Second, the notion that becoming a good hacker requires socia…

I'm not denying that class plays a role --- in fact, I think I made that pretty explicit. I'm arguing that "hacking since you were 8 isn't so much a badge of geek cred as it is an artifact of your social class" is a really bad way of making that argument, since hacking since you were 8 actually is a badge of geek cred. If you look, you'll probably find that people who've trained for pro-tennis since early grade schoo…

The tennis players -- they're both, and so are you. The article asks you to accept that you were privileged, and there's nothing evil about that.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#25
When I was eleven my father -- a painter who worked fourteen hour days -- bought me an Atari 400 because it was the one thing I wanted most in the world at the time. We were not privileged...my father just recognized a desire and talent in me that he wanted to help foster. I love you, Dad.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#26
Bull.

My parents were working class slobs, but they bought me a computer at the age of 10. It was a TRS-80 Color Computer which was the cheapest thing you could get at that time. It was just about the only thing they spent money on for me. I got no piano lessons, no braces, no model rockets, nothing -- except a Dad who wouldn't take a foreman position when he was offered one, a Mom who taught me to "stay in a dead end job you hate no matter what"... Hell, the schoolteacher and carpenter next door wouldn't talk to me family since they thought my parents were just a bunch of scabs...

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#27
post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nice job with the logical fallacies. First, just because you're well off doesn't require you to become a programmer or a hacker, the author is not claiming that. However if you were so inclined, you immediately have a leg up on others due to the circumstances you find yourself in, and the resources you have available to you. Denying that just seems stupid. Second, the notion that becoming a good hacker requires socia…

I'm not denying that class plays a role --- in fact, I think I made that pretty explicit. I'm arguing that "hacking since you were 8 isn't so much a badge of geek cred as it is an artifact of your social class" is a really bad way of making that argument, since hacking since you were 8 actually is a badge of geek cred. If you look, you'll probably find that people who've trained for pro-tennis since early grade schoo…

Why? Why is it a badge of geek cred? Cause you're so old sk00l?

The fact that you have more demonstrable experience may be a badge of honor. That you have had more time to hone your craft perhaps that's worth something.

But the fact that you've been programming for 10 years longer than someone else by itself doesn't mean anything, and it is otherwise irritating to hear people tout that as some sort of credential.

So perhaps your right that the author is not addressing the key point, which is that bragging that you've been using a computer longer than someone else is dumb. The author however is also pointing out that it's also pretentious.

And agreed, starting a fight for the sake of starting a fight is not the best use of either of our hours :)

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#28
What a load of bollocks. My parents were dirt-poor (on an first-world scale) growing up. I did all my early learning on an IBM PC-XT (which was given to us). It was nearly decade-old technology by the time I started in on QBasic, and not worth very much at all. I bought my first computer at age 14, with money that I'd made over the summer gutting and renovating houses.

Sure, in a sense, I was privileged, in that my dad did everything he could to give me a competitive advantage by introducing me to logic (I wore out his Martin Gardner books), chess (he never pulled a punch. We played for years before I beat him), classical literature (what extra money he had went to books. He has a library I still envy), music (he has a degree in music, which helps explain the lack of financial resources), and mathematics (he taught me algebra and trig years before I ran into them in school). He inspired a thirst for learning in me, and did everything he could to develop my ability to think critically because he didn't have financial resources. If that's a "disgusting flaunting of privilege", then I don't know what to tell you. I'm not going to apologize for having parents who cared about me enough to push me to develop my ability to think. They did the same with my other siblings - two younger sisters and a brother. None of them are programmers, despite the fact that they grew up with more money and technology than I did.

What this article really reads like is someone with a martyr complex making excuses for why they aren't good at whatever. Sure, there are people who are in CS who were privileged, and given a leg up by parents who could afford expensive technology, but it's flatly offensive to say that everyone who was interested in computers from a young age is a spoiled child of privilege who flaunts that privilege in others' faces.

Re: If you were hacking since age 8, it means you were privileged

#30
True - when I was ten in 1966 I, following the instructions in a library book, built a Turing machine out of two sheets of paper and, following the program there, added two symbols to three symbols to get five symbols. That was a ll the computer there was for kids in 1966.

Also, this article is total PC crap, following the standard anti-male, anti-white, wahwah bullshit.

She DOES actually touch at the truth for a second when she quotes this

“There is a subset of boys and men who burn with a passion for computers and computing. Through the intensity of their interest, they both mark the field as male and enshrine in its culture their preference for single-minded intensity and focus on technology.”

This is totally true and I was one of them.

Oh, and of course, we're racist too. Here's an exchange-

Because of systemic racism, class differences correlate with racial demographics. In the Racialicious post Gaming Masculinity, Latoya quotes a researcher’s exchange with an African American male computer science (CS) undergraduate:

    “Me and some of my black friends were talking about the other guys in CS. Some of them have been programming since they were eight. We can’t compete with that. Now, the only thing that I have been doing since I was eight is playing basketball. I would own them on the court. I mean it wouldn’t be fair, they would just stand there and I would dominate. It is sort of like that in CS.”
    – Undergraduate CS Major
Magically, when the black BB guy owns you on the court it is somehow NOT unfair at all.
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