Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

bbc.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

321–330 of 415 posts

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#321

Post by yazaddaruvala »

username223 wrote: post #276
rickhanlonii wrote: post #103

They're listening, but not to your voice or with a microphone. Facebook is listening to your data--to all of our data, all at once. They have locations, searches, clicks, messaging, photos, hashtags, and any other form of browsing patterns for everyone in your country, everyone in your neighboorhood, everyone in the same room as you. They have enough data with such advanced analysis that on occasion they can get real…

> Facebook is listening to your data--to all of our data, all at once. So is Google. What makes FB even creepier is that they don't just watch everything people do, but they manipulate people in controlled experiments to extract as much money from them as possible.

> they manipulate people in controlled experiments to extract as much money from them as possible.

You just described A/B testing. This is a technique used by every successful company. The only thing unique about Facebook is the data.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#322

Post by leonroy »

squarefoot wrote: post #315
rowyourfuture wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a person submits their email for free Wifi at a place with Zenreach, they pull from databases and build a profile on the person. I don't know which services provide this or how they gather data, but the thought of anyone being able to download a detailed file on you with only an email or phone number is scary.

A few months ago I did a Google search for my name as i do once or twice a year just to see what comes out. This time I had mixed reactions because among first results there was full text taken from a scanned old magazine dated 1978 or so with my name complete with street address. That was long before the Internet was publicly available and having such data into a magazine would not hurt anyone because people expecte…

As a company director since the age of 15 I’ve had my personal address publicly listed for quite a while now.

Prior to that there were phone books and whilst you could choose to be delisted clearly a lot of people didn’t since the books were so thick!

I thoroughly agree that privacy is important but I don’t think people ever really minded very much or if they did not enough to do something about it like lobby for laws to ensure personal addresses are not disclosed publicly.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#323

Post by bpanon »

unabridged wrote: post #180

I think people are really underestimating how much they can use your friends search data (especially ones you have been in close proximity to) for your ads. Or how big their interest "niche" is. There are only so many categories of web users, even on the very fringe there are probably 10k who think and search just like you. And when they are searching/clicking on products, Facebook will show you similar things.

I have a story about this.

A girl I was seeing years ago was looking for a new apartment. She texted me telling me she found a new apartment on 20th and Gladstone Ave and asked me if I wanted to go with her to see it. Minutes later, I get a Google Now update saying "It would take you 43 minutes to get to 2020 Gladstone Ave if you leave now".

I thought it was cool at first - Google Now was getting really helpful with the driving suggestions. I also thought it was strange that it was for a specific address - I thought that was a glitch, or the nearest address to that intersection, although Google Now has worked with intersections in the past.

I thought Google telling me the time it would take to travel to her apartment showing was impressive enough to actually tell this girl what my phone did. She was not amused and thought that I had hacked her phone. She wanted to know how I knew the exact address of the apartment!

I was curious how this could have been possible since she never texted me the exact address and found out she did look it up on Google Maps. So it's clear how Google had the data but sharing it with me seemed like a huge breach of privacy.

Perhaps the craziest part of all this is that not 5 minutes after telling this girl what Google did, when I went back to take a screenshot of the suggestion - the Google Now card CHANGED to 20th and Gladstone Ave!

I was seriously wondering they were analyzing my conversation afterwards expressing my concern of this breach of privacy and had the "privacy invasion" level turned down a degree.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#324

Post by lloeki »

denzil_correa wrote: post #73

> "I run ads product at Facebook. We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads. Just not true," Mr Goldman wrote. Personally, I am so used to corp speak and word play by major companies that it is difficult to take anything at face value. Therefore, I think the nature of the question asked to Facebook should be different. It should be on what they do rather do they do X. So, here's my question - "What doe…

> "Just not true"

Somehow this kind of phrasing turns several lights bright on my bullshit detector.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#325

Post by widforss »

squarefoot wrote: post #315
rowyourfuture wrote: post #244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When a person submits their email for free Wifi at a place with Zenreach, they pull from databases and build a profile on the person. I don't know which services provide this or how they gather data, but the thought of anyone being able to download a detailed file on you with only an email or phone number is scary.

A few months ago I did a Google search for my name as i do once or twice a year just to see what comes out. This time I had mixed reactions because among first results there was full text taken from a scanned old magazine dated 1978 or so with my name complete with street address. That was long before the Internet was publicly available and having such data into a magazine would not hurt anyone because people expecte…

What's the reason for keeping your address a secret? Genuinely curious, as where I live (se) almost all peoples addresses are public information, and it's really practical.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#326

Post by gnulinux »

Cacti wrote: post #225
rickhanlonii wrote: post #103

They're listening, but not to your voice or with a microphone. Facebook is listening to your data--to all of our data, all at once. They have locations, searches, clicks, messaging, photos, hashtags, and any other form of browsing patterns for everyone in your country, everyone in your neighboorhood, everyone in the same room as you. They have enough data with such advanced analysis that on occasion they can get real…

Yes, I think people really underestimate how much data they leak all day long, and how strong the pattern is. Simply emitting bluetooth and wifi, nevermind cellular, all day long can expose an incredible amount of stuff, provided someone can piece it all together (which is exactly what Facebook and other ad companies do). We like to pretend we're unique and powered by free-will but the reality is most things you do a…

> The difference between us and 1984 is only really one of intent

I'm not convinced intent isn't there; I'm also confused why'd you assume that. As a free software activist, I wonder have you every checked EFF or FSF websites. I'm not saying EFF and FSF are saving the world (no, they are not) but if you browse what they're dealing with, you can easily see the intent is there. It is simply hard to do all these without people thinking intent is not there, which is why nothing is done as explicitly as 1984. For example, Windows 10 has built-in ads, INSIDE operating system, your OS, which you already paid quite a price, forces you see ads; and tracks your behavior "to optimize user experience". People are not worried about this since ads are such an integral part of our lives. But Microsoft perfectly intents to track which websites I visit, what do I eat, what do I like, where would I go. Maybe you can say intention is "different" as in in 1984 they use my personal information to prosecute me, whereas this is not what Microsoft is after. Well, then this brings us to some Foucoult reading. In a world where all my information collected what is the difference between using all my information for a specific cause, when this cause can change just tomorrow. What if NSA asks Microsoft to give bunch of people's data? (we all know this already happened, but it is better practice to ask questions)

I am a programmer, I use my computer all the time, pretty much every single awake moment of mine. I don't want to be watched. But as you said it is depressingly hard to achieve this, since it feels like only 0.1% of the population shares this same desire. Most people are okay being watched, and this is part of the problem.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#327

Post by gnulinux »

yazaddaruvala wrote: post #321
username223 wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Facebook is listening to your data--to all of our data, all at once. So is Google. What makes FB even creepier is that they don't just watch everything people do, but they manipulate people in controlled experiments to extract as much money from them as possible.

> they manipulate people in controlled experiments to extract as much money from them as possible. You just described A/B testing. This is a technique used by every successful company. The only thing unique about Facebook is the data.

FB is also okay using data other companies choose not to. Ethics is definitely a factor, too.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#328

Post by bertil »

widforss wrote: post #325
squarefoot wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few months ago I did a Google search for my name as i do once or twice a year just to see what comes out. This time I had mixed reactions because among first results there was full text taken from a scanned old magazine dated 1978 or so with my name complete with street address. That was long before the Internet was publicly available and having such data into a magazine would not hurt anyone because people expecte…

What's the reason for keeping your address a secret? Genuinely curious, as where I live (se) almost all peoples addresses are public information, and it's really practical.

Addresses can be used for authentication—it routinely is in the UK where I live now.

There are also possible physical safety issues, especially in a country like the US were people seem to have guns and are willing to use them.

I miss Sweden’s transparency and widespread’s trust.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#329

Post by huhtenberg »

widforss wrote: post #325
squarefoot wrote: post #315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A few months ago I did a Google search for my name as i do once or twice a year just to see what comes out. This time I had mixed reactions because among first results there was full text taken from a scanned old magazine dated 1978 or so with my name complete with street address. That was long before the Internet was publicly available and having such data into a magazine would not hurt anyone because people expecte…

What's the reason for keeping your address a secret? Genuinely curious, as where I live (se) almost all peoples addresses are public information, and it's really practical.

> it's really practical

To what end?

I can't think of a situation when someone might need my address and not being able to get it from me directly.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#330

Post by underwoodley »

tfinniga wrote: post #141
rickhanlonii wrote: post #103

They're listening, but not to your voice or with a microphone. Facebook is listening to your data--to all of our data, all at once. They have locations, searches, clicks, messaging, photos, hashtags, and any other form of browsing patterns for everyone in your country, everyone in your neighboorhood, everyone in the same room as you. They have enough data with such advanced analysis that on occasion they can get real…

Right, like the example from Target. It is possible that facebook has access to a stream of Target purchases or credit card purchase information. I'd be 0% surprised if there was a data sharing agreement with credit rating companies. Even if they just knew the price of the purchase, combined with the job (burn risk) and location data (traveled from work to nearest store with pharmacy during the day), it's possible th…

Also, Googling something on your phone is so common and easy nowadays that people just forget that they did it. It's literally become an integral part of the thinking process.
Post reply on HN