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Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

bbc.com

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Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#231

Post by paloaltokid »

Cacti wrote: post #225
rickhanlonii wrote: post #103

They're listening, but not to your voice or with a microphone. Facebook is listening to your data--to all of our data, all at once. They have locations, searches, clicks, messaging, photos, hashtags, and any other form of browsing patterns for everyone in your country, everyone in your neighboorhood, everyone in the same room as you. They have enough data with such advanced analysis that on occasion they can get real…

Yes, I think people really underestimate how much data they leak all day long, and how strong the pattern is. Simply emitting bluetooth and wifi, nevermind cellular, all day long can expose an incredible amount of stuff, provided someone can piece it all together (which is exactly what Facebook and other ad companies do). We like to pretend we're unique and powered by free-will but the reality is most things you do a…

We _are_ in 1984, but unlike the book, it's not imposed on us. We signed up for it. And those of frequenting HN most likely are the ones helping to build it.

Think about it: tomorrow is Monday. How many folks on this board will be working on analytics and tracking once they get in to the office? A lot of us, guaranteed. And how many of us will take a principled stand, swearing not to work on products until surveillance features are removed? A few of us, guaranteed.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#232

Post by Cacti »

denzil_correa wrote: post #73

> "I run ads product at Facebook. We don't - and have never - used your microphone for ads. Just not true," Mr Goldman wrote. Personally, I am so used to corp speak and word play by major companies that it is difficult to take anything at face value. Therefore, I think the nature of the question asked to Facebook should be different. It should be on what they do rather do they do X. So, here's my question - "What doe…

Why would they even bother? On the one hand, they don't need to, they already collect an incredible amount of data on everyone. And on the other, if they were to get caught listening, that's a gross violation of so many federal laws that it's possible Facebook wouldn't even exist the day after it was uncovered.

The risk is incredibly high, and the payoff not that great.

What we're seeing is simply that people fail to understand how much data they leak, and how effective Facebook is at putting it all together. They assume it must be magic, listening to their words, listening to their thoughts, but the reality is they don't need to, because we are _voluntarily_ telling them all this info already.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#233

Post by kmm »

A few days ago I ate a chili pepper out of boredom, and after finding out what a bad idea that was, I opened Reddit. The frontpage of /r/todayilearned had a post about someone learning that birds can't detect capsaicin and that peppers evolved it to deter mammals (which have grinding teeth).

These kinds of cosmic coincidences happen to me and everyone else every few weeks, and they mean absolutely nothing. We're just wired to see patterns. I (and millions more) see hundreds of Reddit posts per day, you (and millions more) see hundreds of ads per day. A crazy coincidence every 10,000 ads isn't very strange.

Something like this should be piss easy to prove, especially on Android. Traffic monitoring, monitoring when exactly the microphone is accessed on a rooted phone, anything really. The fact that this rumor has been going about for years and nobody has found anything, means it's just nonsense.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#234

Post by Cacti »

paloaltokid wrote: post #231
Cacti wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, I think people really underestimate how much data they leak all day long, and how strong the pattern is. Simply emitting bluetooth and wifi, nevermind cellular, all day long can expose an incredible amount of stuff, provided someone can piece it all together (which is exactly what Facebook and other ad companies do). We like to pretend we're unique and powered by free-will but the reality is most things you do a…

We _are_ in 1984, but unlike the book, it's not imposed on us. We signed up for it. And those of frequenting HN most likely are the ones helping to build it. Think about it: tomorrow is Monday. How many folks on this board will be working on analytics and tracking once they get in to the office? A lot of us, guaranteed. And how many of us will take a principled stand, swearing not to work on products until surveillan…

You say people will take a stand, but the vast and overwhelming number of us wont, we will just continue to help build the greatest surveillance system in history. And then tell each other how we’re unicorns that are saving the world, that we cherish freedom and liberty and the hacker ethis, when really we just want to get paid.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#235

Post by glenstein »

rickhanlonii wrote: post #103

They're listening, but not to your voice or with a microphone. Facebook is listening to your data--to all of our data, all at once. They have locations, searches, clicks, messaging, photos, hashtags, and any other form of browsing patterns for everyone in your country, everyone in your neighboorhood, everyone in the same room as you. They have enough data with such advanced analysis that on occasion they can get real…

That's all very true and very important, but I think it misses the point of contention that many people are rightly focusing on.

There's an issue of whether facebook is, despite what they say, doing some sort of data analysis that's relevant to advertising, in addition to all the other listening and analyzing they do with the rest of our data.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#237

Post by scientistem »

cyberferret wrote: post #192
IanCal wrote: post #185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is called the "Frequency Illusion" (also often called / a similar thing is called the "Baader-Meinhof Phenomenon").

I would disagree with that phenomenon. In direct contrast, my awareness of these ads kicked into overdrive after seeing them for the first time, so I was hyper aware and looking out for them afterwards, which is why I noticed they disappeared a day or two after popping up. Since then, my feed has been a bland sea of adverts for mattresses, knives etc. that almost all of my friends complain about seeing. I don't use a…

Just a note, not trying to pick your anecdote, but the experience of something seemingly occuring frequently out of nowhere is exactly the baader-meinhof phenomenon. You’d need to demonstrate a causal link to firmly disprove it, which would assumably be difficult in this case.

Re: Facebook denies 'listening' to conversations

#238

Post by sosborn »

denzil_correa wrote: post #175
madeofpalk wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How could they respond to remove all doubt they're listening? Edit: https://www.theverge.com/2016/6/3/11854860/facebook-smartpho... In a statement issued on June 2nd [2016], Facebook said it "does not use your phone’s microphone to inform ads or to change what you see in News Feed." That's pretty fucking clear to me. Original comment: If they had said something like "We don't use microphones to gather data to drive p…

My question was NOT "Does Facebook use the phone's microphone to inform ads or change what we see in the News Feed?". It seems you have misunderstood my question. Let me repeat my question again : "What does Facebook use data gathered from user microphones across any devices for?"

"When did you stop beating your wife?"
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