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Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

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Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#41

Post by throwgoog452 »

shams93 wrote: post #38
shams93 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how we did things in the 90s we used to debate these speakers and knock down their ideas with rational discourse it's not that hard to deflate the arguments of the far right they're mostly based on a series of bad assumptions like assuming everyone has a deep fear of anyone who looks different than them. It's better to let them speak and then deflate their arguments to the bone in debate.

However when it comes to speakers advocating racism, race is not even real, there is only one human race with ethnic variations we don't allow people to come to medical schools to advocate using voodoo doll to cure cancer why should racists be speaking on college campuses?

Race is real. It's obvious when you look around. The major continental races show up on any k-clustered human genomic analysis. And any competent forensic anthropologist can identity race from skeletal remains.

We should treat people with equal dignity. Race should not be a factor in individual decisions. Left doesn't stop there, though. They go further, insisting that race is not only irrelevant, but unreal. They step beyond fairness and into propaganda and lies. It's why the left is now on the retreat in every institution of power.

I'm not the only one who's sick of having to parrot lies. By alienating people like me, people who would ordinarily be sympathetic to the left's causes, the left is guaranteeing a conservative backlash of biblical scope.

Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#42

Post by gooseus »

evanlivingston wrote: post #3

The author is referring to students protesting the mandatory freshman lecture on Western Civilization, which has a history of being protested at Reed. There's a list of demands as well. http://reediesagainstracism.tumblr.com/demands Students typically have an incredibly small say in shaping the institutions that shape their future. If protesting wasn't uncomfortable, it wouldn't be effective.

* The institutions they are attending

* The ability to shape their own future by choosing which institutions to attend

* The idea that they should have any say in shaping institutions that shape ones future

Aren't these all privileges of being able to attend university in a country born of western Civilization? Wouldn't these all be things they would learn to appreciate more from this class?

> 13. The required freshman course should be reformed to represent the voices of people of color. Lecturers should structure delivery and analysis of content that is sensitive to and proactive for inclusive practices. There should be an articulated understanding that “foundational texts” are subjective and that the importance of the course is to foster student’s abilities to read, write, and listen/respond. Before this is accomplished, Hum 110 should be conscious of the power it gives to already privileged ideas and welcome critique of that use of power. This could be done by 1) allowing alternative readings that critique texts on the current syllabus, 2) making Hum 110 non-mandatory until reform happens or 3) alternate options for Hum lecture.

I'm super curious about these alternate texts... but of those 25 demands, almost all of them should be directed toward the proper administrative offices or the board of trustees. If they can't sway them, then they should probably transfer to a less oppressive college or go start their own.

Attacking educators for doing their job and reducing their effectiveness to teach those students that do want to learn is pretty weak and ineffective. I can only hope one day that they'll come to their senses and be ashamed of themselves.

Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#43

Post by DashRattlesnake »

smasuch wrote: post #39
harpiaharpyja wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why the downvotes? Seems like a relevant anecdote.

because the idea that women should get to work and vote isn't a far-left idea

That's a pretty disingenuous comment: First, your characterization is probably accurate if restricted to the "first wave" feminism (of a century ago), but, IIRC, I think we're on the "third wave" now. Second, in the American political context, feminism is highly correlated with progressives/left-wing, and the specific people I was talking about are very left-wing. Thirdly, my comment wasn't even about feminism at all, but about how people can change beliefs without changing a lot of things one might naively assume would change with them.

Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#44

Post by gooseus »

aslkdjaslkdj wrote: post #18

This is a good summary of the entire situation without the emotion of an op-ed: https://www.insidehighered.com/news/2017/09/11/reed-college-...

With a link to their supplementary syllabus, I was curious about that:

https://drive.google.com/drive/folders/0Bw66lFPav-Gsa3prajMy...

Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#45

Post by JungleGymSam »

Top19 wrote: post #28

Tim Wu, who coined the term “network neutrality”, wrote an excellent op-ed in the N.Y. Times yesterday. He said that now speech,l is a form of control and censorship, whereas 100 years ago limiting speech was a form of control / censorship. Interesting to see how the pendulum shifts...

You need to rewrite that whole paragraph. What?

Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#46

Post by gozur88 »

shams93 wrote: post #38
shams93 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how we did things in the 90s we used to debate these speakers and knock down their ideas with rational discourse it's not that hard to deflate the arguments of the far right they're mostly based on a series of bad assumptions like assuming everyone has a deep fear of anyone who looks different than them. It's better to let them speak and then deflate their arguments to the bone in debate.

However when it comes to speakers advocating racism, race is not even real, there is only one human race with ethnic variations we don't allow people to come to medical schools to advocate using voodoo doll to cure cancer why should racists be speaking on college campuses?

The vast majority of the people accused of being racists aren't actually racists. But even if they were, it's not your place to decide who gets to speak and who doesn't.

Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#47

Post by maxerickson »

jostmey wrote: post #5

I worry about an increasing movement toward radicalization on all ends of the political spectrum. I think Trump represented a shift to the far -right. Now I worry liberals might shift to the far -left. The middle ground seems to be disappearing

I've seen little evidence that these sorts of protests are broadly representative of what goes on at universities.

There are more than 15 million college students in the US, even dozens and dozens of absurd protests isn't evidence of much.

https://nces.ed.gov/fastfacts/display.asp?id=98

Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#48

Post by thrden »

shams93 wrote: post #38
shams93 wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is not how we did things in the 90s we used to debate these speakers and knock down their ideas with rational discourse it's not that hard to deflate the arguments of the far right they're mostly based on a series of bad assumptions like assuming everyone has a deep fear of anyone who looks different than them. It's better to let them speak and then deflate their arguments to the bone in debate.

However when it comes to speakers advocating racism, race is not even real, there is only one human race with ethnic variations we don't allow people to come to medical schools to advocate using voodoo doll to cure cancer why should racists be speaking on college campuses?

Perhaps, but then you run into the problem of defining racism. It can be obvious, but you can also have situations like the one in yale where the english curriculum was "Colonized"[1] by the fact it had too many white male writers. Would someone who advocates for teaching the traditionally accepted cannon of english literature be racist. According to some definitions, yes. Further, some are willing to call the fundamentals of math racist[2]. Racism can be subtle as well as obvious, and to define the parameters of acceptable speech based on subjective understanding of that subtlety seems that it would likely lead to abuse.

[1]http://college.usatoday.com/2016/06/10/yale-undergraduates-a...

[2]www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5018223/Professor-says-math-perpetuates-white-privilege.html

Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#49

Post by evanlivingston »

shams93 wrote: post #37
gozur88 wrote: post #6

>We introduced ourselves and took our seats. But as we were about to begin, the protesters seized our microphones, stood in front of us and shut down the lecture. I'm not sure who gave these people the idea the heckler's veto is a legitimate tactic on a college campus or why the administration puts up with it. Those students should be summarily expelled.

This is not how we did things in the 90s we used to debate these speakers and knock down their ideas with rational discourse it's not that hard to deflate the arguments of the far right they're mostly based on a series of bad assumptions like assuming everyone has a deep fear of anyone who looks different than them. It's better to let them speak and then deflate their arguments to the bone in debate.

That's what we did back in the 1860's too. There were all these people who wanted to build an economy based around the idea that some humans didn't really have rights and so we deflated their arguments with rational discourse.

Obviously I'm not comparing teachers of Western history to slave owners. But i am trying to point out that rational discourse alone doesn't yield a more egalitarian world.

Re: Professors can’t stay silent about this extremist moment on campuses

#50

Post by smasuch »

DashRattlesnake wrote: post #43
smasuch wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because the idea that women should get to work and vote isn't a far-left idea

That's a pretty disingenuous comment: First, your characterization is probably accurate if restricted to the "first wave" feminism (of a century ago), but, IIRC, I think we're on the "third wave" now. Second, in the American political context, feminism is highly correlated with progressives/left-wing, and the specific people I was talking about are very left-wing . Thirdly, my comment wasn't even about feminism at al…

You brought up the broad concept of 'feminism' as an example and your comment was about people who go to either extreme, so I think I took your comment as being more anti-feminism then you meant it (no ingenuous meant to be dis'ed). I agree with your idea of how some people change beliefs but still keep the same extreme attitude.
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