SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors • Hacker News Board

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#51

Post by majormajor » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 4:23 AM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #14

chroem- wrote: post #4

It's interesting that I can't think of any of these megagrowth tech startups that have gone off without a hitch. Zenefits, Uber, Snapchat, etc. are all in some form of trouble or another, and yet these companies are supposed to be the shining success stories that all other tech startups aspire to.

How about Slack ($5bn) and Stripe ($9bn)? That being said, when you get that big, of course there's problems. You have targets on your back, you're managing thousands of people, etc. Especially if you're entering into a market with regulations... someone is going to fight back.

I don't understand the endgame for slack. It's a chat app with some good features and some annoying features. It's easier to write integrations against, I've heard? Where's the $5B value in that?

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#52

Post by majormajor » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 4:27 AM UTC

austenallred wrote: post #34

mbesto wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you’re used to obeying rules (especially unwritten ones) you’ll never get off the ground in the first place. I know plenty of people who "get off the ground" by playing by the rules. I'd love for you to re-read your comment again and tell me that it doesn't sound dogmatic.

Of course it’s a general statement and doesn’t represent 100% of instances. But it’s generally true. Find me a billion dollar company started by someone who follows all the rules.

Find me anyone who follows all rules.

Maybe draw the restriction back a bit, there.

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#53

Post by ChuckMcM » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 5:29 AM UTC

chroem- wrote: post #4

It's interesting that I can't think of any of these megagrowth tech startups that have gone off without a hitch. Zenefits, Uber, Snapchat, etc. are all in some form of trouble or another, and yet these companies are supposed to be the shining success stories that all other tech startups aspire to.

I isn't too surprising is it? Companies are made up of people and people are made up of complex psychologies.

Something startups do is the they take people who may have very little experience at the senior level and thrust them up there into the limelight. That is contrasted with people who come up through the ranks of a large company, adjusting along the way to the norms of corporate behavior and the company's notion of right and wrong.

I am fascinated by the lack of repercussions for investors. I had thought GroupOn and Zynga would have taught people the risks but no such luck.

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#54

Post by natural219 » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 6:20 AM UTC

majormajor wrote: post #51

gkoberger wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Slack ($5bn) and Stripe ($9bn)? That being said, when you get that big, of course there's problems. You have targets on your back, you're managing thousands of people, etc. Especially if you're entering into a market with regulations... someone is going to fight back.

I don't understand the endgame for slack. It's a chat app with some good features and some annoying features. It's easier to write integrations against, I've heard? Where's the $5B value in that?

Umm. What endgame? They get away with charging $6.66 / month / user for the most popular organizational chat application in existence.

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#55

Post by scientistem » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 6:39 AM UTC

natural219 wrote: post #54

majormajor wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the endgame for slack. It's a chat app with some good features and some annoying features. It's easier to write integrations against, I've heard? Where's the $5B value in that?

Umm. What endgame? They get away with charging $6.66 / month / user for the most popular organizational chat application in existence.

After email, of course.

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#56

Post by greenyoda » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 7:21 AM UTC

natural219 wrote: post #54

majormajor wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand the endgame for slack. It's a chat app with some good features and some annoying features. It's easier to write integrations against, I've heard? Where's the $5B value in that?

Umm. What endgame? They get away with charging $6.66 / month / user for the most popular organizational chat application in existence.

They can only charge $6.66/month until a competitor comes along that creates a better and/or cheaper product. Unlike Facebook, which has a lot of inertia because all your friends may be on it and you can't get them to switch, a company can easily switch all its employees to a different corporate chat app: the CEO orders it, and it's done.

Also, that $5B valuation is based on significant expectations of future growth. Their customers up to now are probably the low-hanging fruit of the market - tech companies whose culture embraces tools like Slack. To grow beyond that (e.g., to Fortune 500 companies), they may need to offer a significantly different product that's sold in a very different way. Or, those companies may not want such a product at all.

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#57

Post by simonh » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 8:31 AM UTC

greenyoda wrote: post #56

natural219 wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Umm. What endgame? They get away with charging $6.66 / month / user for the most popular organizational chat application in existence.

They can only charge $6.66/month until a competitor comes along that creates a better and/or cheaper product. Unlike Facebook, which has a lot of inertia because all your friends may be on it and you can't get them to switch, a company can easily switch all its employees to a different corporate chat app: the CEO orders it, and it's done. Also, that $5B valuation is based on significant expectations of future growth.…

Corporate chat apps are much stickier than that. After a while you integrate them into other services, build workflows on them and they become part of how your business functions. The specifics of what they integrate with and how determine what workflows you can build and how they work, which means these services are not fungible. Changing over can be very painful and costly.

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#58

Post by joshmn » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 9:09 AM UTC

gkoberger wrote: post #14

chroem- wrote: post #4

It's interesting that I can't think of any of these megagrowth tech startups that have gone off without a hitch. Zenefits, Uber, Snapchat, etc. are all in some form of trouble or another, and yet these companies are supposed to be the shining success stories that all other tech startups aspire to.

How about Slack ($5bn) and Stripe ($9bn)? That being said, when you get that big, of course there's problems. You have targets on your back, you're managing thousands of people, etc. Especially if you're entering into a market with regulations... someone is going to fight back.

There's a ton of dirt on Stripe. Info in my comment history, I won't dig it up.

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#59

Post by PakG1 » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 9:47 AM UTC

joshmn wrote: post #58

gkoberger wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Slack ($5bn) and Stripe ($9bn)? That being said, when you get that big, of course there's problems. You have targets on your back, you're managing thousands of people, etc. Especially if you're entering into a market with regulations... someone is going to fight back.

There's a ton of dirt on Stripe. Info in my comment history, I won't dig it up.

I was curious, so I searched a bit. No mention of stripe at all within the past 372 days of your comments. Mind sharing now that you've piqued my interest?

Re: SEC fines Zenefits and former CEO for misleading investors

#60

Post by skinnymuch » Sat, Oct 28, 2017, 9:54 AM UTC

joshmn wrote: post #58

gkoberger wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about Slack ($5bn) and Stripe ($9bn)? That being said, when you get that big, of course there's problems. You have targets on your back, you're managing thousands of people, etc. Especially if you're entering into a market with regulations... someone is going to fight back.

There's a ton of dirt on Stripe. Info in my comment history, I won't dig it up.

How far back do we have to go? I know this isn't reddit, but can't help but feel like this is a joke since there's nothing in 2017.