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Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

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Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#61

Post by michaelchisari »

WalterBright wrote: post #58
michaelchisari wrote: post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as a boring professional, yes, artists may be insufferable in plenty of ways, but boring they are not and their presence is important for establishing and growing a local culture, whereas professionals are good for growing an economy and both are needed for a healthy, vibrant city.

I know some artists, and many of them are definitely boring :-) Just because someone decides to be an artist and sticks seashells on a model house doesn't make them interesting. And why would, for example, playing a trumpet well make you intrinsically more interesting than mastering complex mathematics? I'd rather have lunch with the mathematician. In fact, Feynman is at the top of the list of people I'd like to have…

Because most people can relate to music on an emotional level better than they can relate to complex mathematics.

It sounds like you know some pretty terrible artists, though. I mean, seashells on a model house?

PS. Feynman is Feynman for a reason.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#62

Post by torstenvl »

michaelchisari wrote: post #61
WalterBright wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know some artists, and many of them are definitely boring :-) Just because someone decides to be an artist and sticks seashells on a model house doesn't make them interesting. And why would, for example, playing a trumpet well make you intrinsically more interesting than mastering complex mathematics? I'd rather have lunch with the mathematician. In fact, Feynman is at the top of the list of people I'd like to have…

Because most people can relate to music on an emotional level better than they can relate to complex mathematics. It sounds like you know some pretty terrible artists, though. I mean, seashells on a model house? PS. Feynman is Feynman for a reason.

People who only relate on an emotional level and don't appreciate intellectual complexity are - wait for it - boring.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#63

Post by michaelchisari »

torstenvl wrote: post #62
michaelchisari wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most people can relate to music on an emotional level better than they can relate to complex mathematics. It sounds like you know some pretty terrible artists, though. I mean, seashells on a model house? PS. Feynman is Feynman for a reason.

People who only relate on an emotional level and don't appreciate intellectual complexity are - wait for it - boring.

You said only, not me. Great art is heavy on intellectual complexity.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#64

Post by ryuker16 »

maxxxxx wrote: post #32
bigmario wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people make this claim with no evidence. It's understandable to feel insecure about future career prospects in our fast-changing industry, but honestly I'll believe it when I see it.

I bet a lot of the frontend guys will have problems when someone comes out with something like Visual Basic for the web. It's harder now to develop a LOB app than when it was twenty years ago and I think this will change at some point. Same for a lot of "data scientists". Unless you are on the forefront of development there will be more and more tools that make the data accessible to regular people instead of having…

We had that for frontend for many years

It's called Adobe Muse.

Demand is still high as ever.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#65

Post by asdffdsaaasdf »

WalterBright wrote: post #25
justinator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google, Amazon (for example), are building large work centers in desirable places to work, which are raising the cost of living of everyone else in the town that may not have a six figure income. Google is moving to Boulder, CO as we speak; Denver was on the shortlist for Amazon. It's the same problem with kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals to live in lofts built o…

> kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals So artists are wonderful, interesting people, and professionals are boring and unappealing? Wow.

Generally speaking yes, I think artists add an element of interest and entropy in an area compared to professionals in white collar positions.

Wouldn't agree on the 'wonderful' or 'unappealing' value judgments though; I think you added them for rhetorical emphasis.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#66

Post by Daishiman »

maxxxxx wrote: post #32
bigmario wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of people make this claim with no evidence. It's understandable to feel insecure about future career prospects in our fast-changing industry, but honestly I'll believe it when I see it.

I bet a lot of the frontend guys will have problems when someone comes out with something like Visual Basic for the web. It's harder now to develop a LOB app than when it was twenty years ago and I think this will change at some point. Same for a lot of "data scientists". Unless you are on the forefront of development there will be more and more tools that make the data accessible to regular people instead of having…

The promise of visual designers has existed for the past 30 years and it has always blown up spectacularly because everything that can be made to conform to canned design principles is already there, and everything else actually requires non-trivial knowledge that is not easily automated.

Design guidelines change too, and accommodating existing software to new designs is not automatable either.

And for data science? Simple correlations are trivial, but doing useful data science requires domain understanding of the business and products and factors such as seasonality, markets and so on.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#67

Post by watwut »

torstenvl wrote: post #62
michaelchisari wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most people can relate to music on an emotional level better than they can relate to complex mathematics. It sounds like you know some pretty terrible artists, though. I mean, seashells on a model house? PS. Feynman is Feynman for a reason.

People who only relate on an emotional level and don't appreciate intellectual complexity are - wait for it - boring.

This whole thread sounds like hurt feelings.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#68

Post by Daishiman »

WalterBright wrote: post #25
justinator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google, Amazon (for example), are building large work centers in desirable places to work, which are raising the cost of living of everyone else in the town that may not have a six figure income. Google is moving to Boulder, CO as we speak; Denver was on the shortlist for Amazon. It's the same problem with kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals to live in lofts built o…

> kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals So artists are wonderful, interesting people, and professionals are boring and unappealing? Wow.

Hmm, yes?

There's only so much after-work talk I can tolerate about app servers. I want to go to the theater, watch plays, and see bands. The people who have those interests are not particularly enchanted by traditional professional careers.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#69

Post by justinator »

xapata wrote: post #57
justinator wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Google, Amazon (for example), are building large work centers in desirable places to work, which are raising the cost of living of everyone else in the town that may not have a six figure income. Google is moving to Boulder, CO as we speak; Denver was on the shortlist for Amazon. It's the same problem with kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals to live in lofts built o…

Or we could just pay service-workers more. If you'd like to have a cool bar where the employees can afford to live in the neighborhood, then create one. Charge enough per drink to pay the rent and advertise why. I'm curious if it'd succeed.

I don't know if working as a bartender to owning a bar is that easy of a process.

In Boulder at least, I'm not there to drink at a cool bar, work at a cool bar, or own a cool bar. I'm there because it's a livable city. Or was a livable city.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#70

Post by Daishiman »

torstenvl wrote: post #62
michaelchisari wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because most people can relate to music on an emotional level better than they can relate to complex mathematics. It sounds like you know some pretty terrible artists, though. I mean, seashells on a model house? PS. Feynman is Feynman for a reason.

People who only relate on an emotional level and don't appreciate intellectual complexity are - wait for it - boring.

Artists generally have a pretty profound application of intellect to their work, which is usually much more conceptually interesting than building a CRUD app.

And they also work with people who don't take an intellectual approach to their production but rather follow intuition.

One thing is certain: it's a more heterogenous environment. I find that to be extremely stimulating.

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