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Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

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Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#21

Post by megaman22 »

hkmurakami wrote: post #19
rossdavidh wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think that programming is splitting into several different fields. Some of it is rather like 1920's electrician jobs, which by the way were good middle class jobs that people could be proud of being able to do. But other kinds of programming are not blue collar yet. I think it's rather like how electrical engineering and electrician split into separate fields; it's not like electrical engineers ceased to exist, it'…

Afaik electrician is still a solid blue collar job?

Electrician can be a very good blue collar job - if I hadn't gone to college, I'd have thought real hard about doing electrical in a trade school. I'd be sort of surprised to see it significantly automated any time in the near future, as well.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#22

Post by WalterBright »

Animats wrote: post #6

Don't worry. Programming is becoming a blue collar job. Being an "electrician" in 1880 was a big deal, the high technology job of its day. By 1920 it was a union blue collar job. That's programming.

An electrician in 1880 did a lot of design work. One of 1920 (and today) does it by rote - they just follow canned rules and procedures already worked out. It's all coded into regulations, too, so there's little flexibility.

An electrical engineer, on the other hand, does design work.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#23

Post by saas_sam »

rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #4

Before industrialization, land that mattered was farmland. Then as industrialization took hold, urban land became more important as the grouping of people together allowed for economies of scale in manufacturing. But then the petrochemical revolution put things in reverse, as people could live anywhere and travel by car. Suddenly, open space was economically desirable, as it made more sense to build a factory in supe…

I think the question to answer is this: What does Small Town, U.S.A. have to offer the world that people are willing to pay for? My sense is that until very recently, the answer was "stuff the locals want plus a few large operations that 'plugged into' the national economy like farms and factories."

Now, as you point out, the barriers to consolidating industry into mega-hubs like Shenzhen are dissolving.

The only reasons to start or keep a business somewhere now are 3: 1. Physical resource dependence (ex. mining operations need to be where the mine is), 2. Regulatory (ex. tax policies), and 3. Talent.

Small towns used to rely on #1, which is now a losing strategy since global markets have dramatically driven down the costs of extracting and moving physical resources.

Now they're trying to do more of #2, which works for a little while but there's always another government somewhere willing to cut a better deal.

The only way small towns can compete is to focus on #3: Talent. They have to develop highly skilled workforces. That's literally all they can do.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#24

Post by WalterBright »

hkmurakami wrote: post #20
indubitable wrote: post #18

This article made me curious about something, statistic wise, with inequality. Imagine we have a kingdom of a million workers and one king. Inequality would be mostly invisible. Unless you compare yourself to the king (and who would dare do such a thing..), you're doing pretty well - or at least as well as average. But now let's imagine the king wants to modernize his land. So he starts developing and training people…

I have thought something similar as well. If you have one Bill Gates and everyone else making $80k, then Bill Gates has a pretty low upper limit on consumption of scarce assets, and thus goods and services are not bid up. But when a larger and larger number of people make more than their peers, then you start to have a bidding war for scarce goods (ex: housing, education, etc). Hats what you have in the Bay Area. Mor…

Industries that have government heavily involved in (health care, education, housing) have seen huge runups in prices. Ones government is not involved in (such as software) have seen precipitous price declines.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#25

Post by WalterBright »

justinator wrote: post #9
rm_-rf_slash wrote: post #4

Before industrialization, land that mattered was farmland. Then as industrialization took hold, urban land became more important as the grouping of people together allowed for economies of scale in manufacturing. But then the petrochemical revolution put things in reverse, as people could live anywhere and travel by car. Suddenly, open space was economically desirable, as it made more sense to build a factory in supe…

Google, Amazon (for example), are building large work centers in desirable places to work, which are raising the cost of living of everyone else in the town that may not have a six figure income. Google is moving to Boulder, CO as we speak; Denver was on the shortlist for Amazon. It's the same problem with kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals to live in lofts built o…

> kicking out artists in a dilapidated warehouse area, and moving in boring professionals

So artists are wonderful, interesting people, and professionals are boring and unappealing? Wow.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#26

Post by thewarrior »

WalterBright wrote: post #22
Animats wrote: post #6

Don't worry. Programming is becoming a blue collar job. Being an "electrician" in 1880 was a big deal, the high technology job of its day. By 1920 it was a union blue collar job. That's programming.

An electrician in 1880 did a lot of design work. One of 1920 (and today) does it by rote - they just follow canned rules and procedures already worked out. It's all coded into regulations, too, so there's little flexibility. An electrical engineer, on the other hand, does design work.

Could nt that happen to programming as well ?

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#27

Post by chinstorff »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #3

Does anyone have the book? I noticed in the chart they measured 'San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward' which would be the northern half of the bay area that does not include the Santa Clara valley (aka Silicon Valley). I'm wondering if there was a measurement for the 'Redwood City - San Jose - Fremont' southern half of the bay area.

The San Francisco-Oakland-Hayward MSA[0] contains San Mateo and Alameda Counties, so Redwood City and Fremont are included.

Santa Clara County is not included, however.

[0] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/San_Jose-San_Francisco-Oakland...

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#28

Post by michaelchisari »

thewarrior wrote: post #26
WalterBright wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An electrician in 1880 did a lot of design work. One of 1920 (and today) does it by rote - they just follow canned rules and procedures already worked out. It's all coded into regulations, too, so there's little flexibility. An electrical engineer, on the other hand, does design work.

Could nt that happen to programming as well ?

It could and it should.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#29

Post by WalterBright »

thewarrior wrote: post #26
WalterBright wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An electrician in 1880 did a lot of design work. One of 1920 (and today) does it by rote - they just follow canned rules and procedures already worked out. It's all coded into regulations, too, so there's little flexibility. An electrical engineer, on the other hand, does design work.

Could nt that happen to programming as well ?

I'm in the compiler business. Compilers handle an increasing amount of routine programming tasks, but programmers respond to that by making more complex programs, so the creative input needed by programmers is about the same.

Re: Rise of the Creative Class Worked a Little Too Well

#30

Post by dontlikeitupem »

Parts of East London were always there, but remained in the shadows, underdeveloped and relatively cheaply priced compared to the west and central areas. Everyone waited for others to make the area trendy, they needed someone else to socially validate and approve the area before they then came en-masse. They demanded new expensive bakeries, tweeted their delight with the distressed decor coffee shop, and simply purred about the expensive butcher. Then at some point later, those some people went on to complain the area had become gentrified. One day even the hipsters and shiny people will be priced out, and maybe the area will change again, but the original locals, who had business and family for generations there, were never asked about any of this, and the remaining few still don't have a voice.
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