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IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

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Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#21
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought memristors is RAM that doesn't lose state when losing electricity. Is this article about memristors? That wasn't clear. Can memristors perform computations?

I'm not an expert on this, but I think you might be thinking of nvram/non volatile RAM, "memristor" is a portmanteau of memory and transistor, so I'd expect that they have properties of both.

Not quite. memristors are resistors with a memory.

Specifically as current is run across it, it builds up more and more resistance. Then as the current is reversed (the plus and minus ends of the resistor is switched) this resistance will go back down.

Thus it can be used as non-volatile memory in the sense that certain tiers of resistance can be designated as a bit.

Note that as it is fundamentally an analog component one can potentially also used this property to emulate a neuron.

Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#22
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought memristors is RAM that doesn't lose state when losing electricity. Is this article about memristors? That wasn't clear. Can memristors perform computations?

I'm not an expert on this, but I think you might be thinking of nvram/non volatile RAM, "memristor" is a portmanteau of memory and transistor, so I'd expect that they have properties of both.

Actually it's a portmanteau of "memory" and "resistor". That's important since it's basically a variable resistance resistor that "remembers" its resistance.

Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#23

This is the promise of memristors. Despite innumerable articles being written about neuromorphic architectures like they'll be something miraculous, this ability to change from functioning as a bit of memory to being a bunch of functional logic on the fly at the speed of a memory read? That's going to be crazy. It will open up possibilities that we probably can't even imagine right now. I've never understood why peop…

The best thing about memristors is that actually this is how the brain really works (at an electronical equivalence). There is no von Neumann architecture in our cortex, rather neurons in networks which both compute and store memories.

Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#24

This is the promise of memristors. Despite innumerable articles being written about neuromorphic architectures like they'll be something miraculous, this ability to change from functioning as a bit of memory to being a bunch of functional logic on the fly at the speed of a memory read? That's going to be crazy. It will open up possibilities that we probably can't even imagine right now. I've never understood why peop…

> I've never understood why people don't get more excited about memristors.

personally, mostly because i've been seeing articles about how they're just about to totally upend computing for the last ten years

Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#25

This is the promise of memristors. Despite innumerable articles being written about neuromorphic architectures like they'll be something miraculous, this ability to change from functioning as a bit of memory to being a bunch of functional logic on the fly at the speed of a memory read? That's going to be crazy. It will open up possibilities that we probably can't even imagine right now. I've never understood why peop…

"this ability to change from functioning as a bit of memory to being a bunch of functional logic on the fly at the speed of a memory read?"

My excitement is tempered by considering the areal demands on the silicon for the putative "smart memory". Suppose, just for the sake of argument, you want your smart memory to be able to take a 4K block of 64-bit integers and add them together. It happens incredible quickly, sure, though you'd have to get an expert to tell me what the fanin can be to guess how many cycles this will take. But you're now looking at massively more silicon to arrange all that. And adding blocks of numbers isn't really that interesting, we really want to speed up matrix math. Assuming hard-coded matrix sizes, that's a whackload of silicon per operation you want to support; it's at least another logarithmic whackload factor to support a selection of matrix sizes and yet more again to support arbitrary sizes. In general, it's a whackload of silicon for anything you'd want to do, and the more flexible you make your "active memory" the more whackloads of silicon you're putting in there.

It may sound weird to describe a single addition set of gates as a "whackload", but remember you need to lay at least one down for each thing you want to support. If you want to be able to do these operations from arbitrary locations in RAM, it means every single RAM cell is going to need its own gates that implement every single "smart" feature you want to offer. Even just control silicon for the neural nets is going to add up. (It may not be doing digital stuff and it may be easier to mentally overlook, but it's certainly going to be some sort of silicon-per-cell.)

Even if you were somehow handed a tech stack that worked this way already, you'd find yourself pressured to head back to the architecture we already have, because the first thing you'd want to do is take all that custom silicon and isolate it to a single computation unit on the chip that the rest of the chip feeds, because then you've got a lot more space for RAM, and you can implement a lot more functionality without paying per memory cell. And with that, you come perilously close to what is already a GPU today. All that silicon dedicated to the tasks you aren't doing right now is silicon you're going to want to be memory instead, and anyone making the smart memory is going to have a hard time competing with people who offer an order of magnitude or three more RAM for the same price and tell you to just throw more CPUs/GPUs at the problem.

RAM that persists without power is much more interesting than smart memory.

Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#26

This is the promise of memristors. Despite innumerable articles being written about neuromorphic architectures like they'll be something miraculous, this ability to change from functioning as a bit of memory to being a bunch of functional logic on the fly at the speed of a memory read? That's going to be crazy. It will open up possibilities that we probably can't even imagine right now. I've never understood why peop…

I've never understood why people don't get more excited about memristors.

Probably because they have been promising them too long. I remember watching a video lecture in 2008 about how IBM was on the verge of revolutionizing everything with them.

Meanwhile in the same timespan GPU/DNN have upended the computing landscape.

Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#27

This is the promise of memristors. Despite innumerable articles being written about neuromorphic architectures like they'll be something miraculous, this ability to change from functioning as a bit of memory to being a bunch of functional logic on the fly at the speed of a memory read? That's going to be crazy. It will open up possibilities that we probably can't even imagine right now. I've never understood why peop…

> I'm still waiting to be able to buy a 2000 ppi display like IBM's R&D announced creating back in the late 1990s or so...

You're not thinking of this and mistakenly adding an extra 0, are you? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_T220/T221_LCD_monitors#His...

Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#28
post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not an expert on this, but I think you might be thinking of nvram/non volatile RAM, "memristor" is a portmanteau of memory and transistor, so I'd expect that they have properties of both.

Not quite. memristors are resistors with a memory. Specifically as current is run across it, it builds up more and more resistance. Then as the current is reversed (the plus and minus ends of the resistor is switched) this resistance will go back down. Thus it can be used as non-volatile memory in the sense that certain tiers of resistance can be designated as a bit. Note that as it is fundamentally an analog compone…

Currency? Is it a crypto-currency that runs across it? :)

Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#29
post #25

This is the promise of memristors. Despite innumerable articles being written about neuromorphic architectures like they'll be something miraculous, this ability to change from functioning as a bit of memory to being a bunch of functional logic on the fly at the speed of a memory read? That's going to be crazy. It will open up possibilities that we probably can't even imagine right now. I've never understood why peop…

"this ability to change from functioning as a bit of memory to being a bunch of functional logic on the fly at the speed of a memory read?" My excitement is tempered by considering the areal demands on the silicon for the putative "smart memory". Suppose, just for the sake of argument, you want your smart memory to be able to take a 4K block of 64-bit integers and add them together. It happens incredible quickly, sur…

Yeah, this seems like the exact same problems that we already have with FPGAs.

1. They're really hard to program for in a way that is easy to understand and scale.

2. They eat a ton of power. Heat = power = max speed. If you can't make it better then today existing ASICs are still going to be used.

The intersection of ASIC + reconfigurable serial processes(aka sequential programming) strikes a really sweet point between power and flexibility that I think is going to be hard to unseat.

I think FPGAs are incredible but if this were true I think we'd already see them taking over the world.

Re: IBM scientists say radical new ‘in-memory’ architecture will speed up computers

#30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not quite. memristors are resistors with a memory. Specifically as current is run across it, it builds up more and more resistance. Then as the current is reversed (the plus and minus ends of the resistor is switched) this resistance will go back down. Thus it can be used as non-volatile memory in the sense that certain tiers of resistance can be designated as a bit. Note that as it is fundamentally an analog compone…

Currency? Is it a crypto-currency that runs across it? :)

bleeping butterfingers...

Fixed.

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