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How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

bbc.com

131–140 of 170 posts

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#131

I truly fear the day the NBN comes to my area. I am currently with Telstra and fortunately have HFC, I get pretty reliable speeds between 112 and 115mbps, with ping of 9ms. I am a developer and I rely on my currently decent connection to make money, video call clients in other countries, transfer large files (to and fro) if speeds were to suffer resulting in the inability to communicate properly, it would be crushing…

I also have Telstra HFC 115/2, and our suburb is going through the NBN migration right now. We are getting the HFC NBN, and today we just got a call from Telstra saying that they can't actually guarantee even 50Mbps once we switch...

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#132
post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It wasn't though. The rollout follows political seats exactly to the street. In Brisbane this means that it followed the border of marginal ALP seats that cross the river and back again instead of doing adjacent houses. It's also not meaningless 5 years into a project that was announced 7 years prior.

> It's also not meaningless 5 years into a project that was announced 7 years prior. It's a once-in-100 years project to create infrastructure with a lifetime of the same order. It involved replacing nearly 100% of the country's telecommunications infrastructure. 5 years is not particularly long in that context, and trashing it because you can't wait 7 years or even 10 years instead of 5 in exchange for a vastly infe…

I disagree that 5 years is a short period of time from 2009 to 2014 in the context of their own estimates saying completion in 2020.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#133
post #118

I will be moving to Melbourne next year. What kind of internet speed can I expect, what areas should I be looking at for a good connection at home? I currently have 200/20 in Berlin, presumably will need to downgrade my expectations...

https://www.nbnco.com.au/learn-about-the-nbn/rollout-map.htm...

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#134

This article didn't mention what Australians are choosing to do when they have a range of speeds. According to the figures NBN released 80% of customers aren't even paying for the top speed they could. Similarly, this piece from Vox notes that fast internet just is not nearly as valuable as proponents claimed. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/only-17p... https://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/10/17/132…

That's an extremely misleading argument. The offerings are hobbled by the fact that most of the new connections (FTTN) can't achieve those high speeds, and secondly, the CVC pricing model discourages ISPs from providing a service generally that doesn't slow down at peak times, and the CVC also makes it more expensive. It's the perfect trifecta to discourage the higher tiers - and the growing uproar by the general population is an indication you're wrong.

Compare to a country with a more sane model (like NZ, the US in places or many Asian countries), and you'll find much higher uptake of fast internet. The Government could fix the NBN to encourage people to take up faster plans if they wanted, but their insistence to not fix any of the barriers makes me conclude they must be doing it intentionally...

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#135
post #46

This article didn't mention what Australians are choosing to do when they have a range of speeds. According to the figures NBN released 80% of customers aren't even paying for the top speed they could. Similarly, this piece from Vox notes that fast internet just is not nearly as valuable as proponents claimed. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/only-17p... https://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/10/17/132…

The craziest part is that I was getting 100/60 that actually ran FASTER than it’s advertised speed, unlimited (truly) for $69 a month, with TPGs private FTTB network. But I had to move, and now I’m on an Opticom network; $99 a month for slower upload, but I do get a static v4 IP, so that’s a plus for what I use it for. And this is all in Fortitude Valley, basically the centre of Brisbane...

'tis true. Can vouch because that's the plan/infrastructure I'm on in Melbourne.

I can only extrapolate my own experience, but perhaps if there was some truth in advertising enforcement. I've had NBN plans elsewhere, and I never chose the top plan, because I'd still be limited by other parts of the internet I was communicating with in practice, and everyone knew the top rate plans quoted speeds are literal nonsense. Why pay extra when you get the same performance on the bottom/mid plan?

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#136
post #89

> After the conservative government attained power in 2013, the NBN struck more upheaval, with copper wire ordered for the final stretches of connection, surrounding neighbourhood broadband nodes. How would pulling copper make it any better? It surely couldn't make it cheaper and at the same time would only use an inferior technology. Why would anyone pulling a new network today use anything but fiber optics?

They're trying to use existing copper for most of it, but as predicted by all the experts it's not working (the Government promised 50Mbps to all and up to 100Mbps but many people only get ~35Mbps - of course, the parts done by the old Government are capable of gigabit), and the cost has blown out by more than $15bn anyway... So yeah, should have just stayed with the fibre.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#137
post #13

By 'fit for service' they mean 12Mbps down, or average copper wire speeds. What's the point? Although the original goal was great, in hindsight it appears that it could not be delivered anywhere near the original budget. For context, after a prolonged period of centre-right government, a centre-left government was elected, led by Kevin Rudd. He had a progressive agenda, but due to a combination of his unmitigated ego…

> in hindsight it appears that it could not be delivered anywhere near the original budget.

What makes you think that? It's on the public record that NBN Co were fairly well on-budget (after they'd upped the peak funding from $39bn to $44.1bn a few years earlier) up until to the 2013 election.

Of course, the media preached it was over budget, so that's what most people think, and Malcolm Turnbull was so suspicious that he commissioned a forensic review into their financials - which was very quietly released when it found "no material issues". There was also some evidence of the incoming NBN management choosing to keep quiet and shut down a cost reduction program that had successfully found efficiency gains and cost improvements ('Project Fox' which was leaked to the media).

All major fibre rollouts have tended to show that costs reduce over time - Chorus in NZ reported a 44% reduction in per-premises cost over their rollout so far, and Openreach in the UK have reported a 50% reduction from when they started.

Coupled with the fact that the Coalition's plan blew out by $15 billion, I think it would have actually been better to continue with the original plan and try to fix the problems. What they ended up doing was to not fix any of the existing problems, and try to 'fix' the things that were good about the NBN (the technology)...

This isn't counting that any upgrade to FTTN (which will be required in less than 10 years) would cost tens of billions of dollars more, or the much higher running cost of FTTN. In the end, the LNP really picked a dud and absolutely screwed up something that could have been fixed.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#138

This article didn't mention what Australians are choosing to do when they have a range of speeds. According to the figures NBN released 80% of customers aren't even paying for the top speed they could. Similarly, this piece from Vox notes that fast internet just is not nearly as valuable as proponents claimed. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/only-17p... https://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/10/17/132…

Telstra just told me today that yes, I can pay for 100/40, but they can't guarantee anything past 25/5. Not sure how my situation gets counted by NBN.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#139
post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need to get the physicists (general relativists?) working on upping the speed of light. Seriously though, how much larger is your latency than speed of light limitations? 2x?

TrueNet keeps track of a lot of good ISP performance measures, including one for international latency [1]. Looking at that average latency to the USA at least it seems pretty damn decent, only about 30-60% worse then the theoretical limit imposed by current fiber tech (speed of light in standard silicon glass fiber is about 30% slower then in vacuum), since direct line is about 7000-8000 miles. And of course as a pr…

So, I do understand there are limitations, but I guess I think that once the data has started to flow, it should maximise available capacity.

However, I feel like `pacman -Syu` should be faster. I don't mind the latency, but the throughput should be better right? I only get 1-2 Mbyte/s average using US servers.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#140
> In 2013, Australia ranked 30th for average internet speeds. The NBN was meant to improve that, but the most recent standings ranked Australia 50th.

Well, I'm pretty sure 50th place today is a lot better than 30th back then still. They might not have the best internet around, but it probably got better for the users in that timespan. It smells to me like typical misused statistics in search of click-earning controversy.

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