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How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

bbc.com

121–130 of 170 posts

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#121
post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is biased is citing premises passed at an really phase in a project which deliberately planned to roll out difficult sites first. Of course there were not many premises passed, that is meaningless without context.

It wasn't though. The rollout follows political seats exactly to the street. In Brisbane this means that it followed the border of marginal ALP seats that cross the river and back again instead of doing adjacent houses. It's also not meaningless 5 years into a project that was announced 7 years prior.

> It's also not meaningless 5 years into a project that was announced 7 years prior.

It's a once-in-100 years project to create infrastructure with a lifetime of the same order. It involved replacing nearly 100% of the country's telecommunications infrastructure. 5 years is not particularly long in that context, and trashing it because you can't wait 7 years or even 10 years instead of 5 in exchange for a vastly inferior outcome is just utter stupidity.

So yes, measuring rollout numbers 5 years in is meaningless.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#122
post #118

I will be moving to Melbourne next year. What kind of internet speed can I expect, what areas should I be looking at for a good connection at home? I currently have 200/20 in Berlin, presumably will need to downgrade my expectations...

Depends on the area but expect 10 Mbps or less. NBN has not really moved into capital cities yet. I am looking forward to them rolling out FTTN connections on copper laid 50 years ago and insulated using newspaper. Even if you get an area with NBN keep in mind they are not obligated to provide more than 12 Mbps during co existence and 25 Mbps after. With 5 dropouts a day considered acceptable service.

If you can find a unit with TPG FTTN go with that. It will be cheaper and uncongested.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#123

This article didn't mention what Australians are choosing to do when they have a range of speeds. According to the figures NBN released 80% of customers aren't even paying for the top speed they could. Similarly, this piece from Vox notes that fast internet just is not nearly as valuable as proponents claimed. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/only-17p... https://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/10/17/132…

That happens in most countries. Consumers don't go with the most expensive options. Romania has among the fastest Internet speeds mixed with the cheapest cost per mbps, yet consumers there frequently don't choose their fastest options because they can make do with less and save a bit of money. Per Akamai's Q1 State of the Internet report, Romania doesn't make the top 10 in average mbps. Yet their % of connections abo…

Romanian here. 5mbps cannot be chosen, not even for rural areas where fiber is being upgraded for free (e.g. the rural town of my parents was upgraded to fiber).

Lowest I know is from UPC which still has some weird 50mbps option but compare that to the biggest ISP, RDS, which has practically made 300mbps the default as you pay the same amount for 100mbps as for 300mbps since a year or so, both for 7$. And by 300mpbs I mean 300mpbs (the remote servers being the bottlenecks while good ones & tests max out).

A lot of things are wrong in Romania but internet is not one of them :) but for those interested, /u/HoliGigi's explanation: https://np.reddit.com/r/europe/comments/2ct58s/average_inter...

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#124
post #89

> After the conservative government attained power in 2013, the NBN struck more upheaval, with copper wire ordered for the final stretches of connection, surrounding neighbourhood broadband nodes. How would pulling copper make it any better? It surely couldn't make it cheaper and at the same time would only use an inferior technology. Why would anyone pulling a new network today use anything but fiber optics?

Because rhe current prime minster hung his entire political career on the idea that fibre is bad and copper would be cheaper.

They cannot change because it would cost him his job.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#125
post #30

First common mistake: Yes, Australia is geographically huge. No, it is not sparce. it is a highly urbanized economy in terms of geographic concentration of the population. Therefore, the oft-quoted extreme expense "oh, its so much more expensive to do it in OZ compared to ..." is bullshit: its not. There are of course some very expensive locations to service, but thats a USO problem. Overall, the cost of deployment o…

> The NZ model, by comparison is gold: structural separation. Crown holdings for the fiber. A pot of money, re-circulating to deploy to the cities, each region re-fills the pot to move to the next town. Far simpler. And.. fibre to (most) homes. Only after A LOT of pain. Broadband uptake was pathetic in NZ until Telecom, formed out of the NZ Post Office and sold to overseas buyers in 1990, was split up into retail (Sp…

Wait... are you saying that dialup internet was slow until 1990 when ISDN came out? Or that broadband uptake was pathetic until 2007 with the Spark/Chorus spilt?

One of those is really early for any internet, and the other 17 years later, is really late!

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#126

This article didn't mention what Australians are choosing to do when they have a range of speeds. According to the figures NBN released 80% of customers aren't even paying for the top speed they could. Similarly, this piece from Vox notes that fast internet just is not nearly as valuable as proponents claimed. http://www.theaustralian.com.au/business/technology/only-17p... https://www.vox.com/new-money/2016/10/17/132…

I did originally opt for the more expensive 100/40 plan, but found that even in the middle of the night with no rain or line work I couldn’t get any better than about 50mbps sync. I’d be perfectly happy to pay for it if I actually got the promised service but until then I’m on the next best plan, 25/5...

From my perspective, they’re blaming the lack of uptake on a symptom of the change they themselves implemented. If they’d left it with fibre I propose many people like myself would pay for the higher tier plan.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#127
post #13

By 'fit for service' they mean 12Mbps down, or average copper wire speeds. What's the point? Although the original goal was great, in hindsight it appears that it could not be delivered anywhere near the original budget. For context, after a prolonged period of centre-right government, a centre-left government was elected, led by Kevin Rudd. He had a progressive agenda, but due to a combination of his unmitigated ego…

> For my part, I'm dropping all wires and switching to 4G/LTE, where I can stream 4K content, get decent uploads and still pay less than I would on the National Broadband network.

No, you don't.

NBN is built using your tax money

NBN will be maintained using your future tax money

NBN is protected by laws from any potential competition from the private sector, those laws are passed using your names.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#128
I lived in Australia for 12 years, they fed me fake news about the progress of the NBN on weekly basis. In the end, they didn't deliver it at all - I was living in Sydney's inner city suburb but there is no way to get it 10 years after the promise was first made.

Moved back to Shanghai in 2017, was really happy about the fact that CCP didn't play the same game, they deliver concrete results. 500Mbps fiber costs me $450/year, with an extra $20/year, I can screw the GFW - streaming 4k from youtube is easy and I am watching it now.

I really like the fact that there was no general election topic or endless + meaningless debate on whether such a fiber network is good or not, CCP just deliver what they believe is good and take responsibility from there. Life is short, how many 10 years you have to waste on craps like that?

It is also worth pointing out that in Chinese definition, wasteful spending on tax money is serious corruption, you'd be seeing trucks load of CCP officials sent into jail should they dare to spend $49b without delivering the network on time.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#129

I truly fear the day the NBN comes to my area. I am currently with Telstra and fortunately have HFC, I get pretty reliable speeds between 112 and 115mbps, with ping of 9ms. I am a developer and I rely on my currently decent connection to make money, video call clients in other countries, transfer large files (to and fro) if speeds were to suffer resulting in the inability to communicate properly, it would be crushing…

I'm still on ADSL2+, and even feel a little the same way. It's a rock solid 14 Mbps line speed for all hours. Was set for 2019 roll out of NBN HFC, but, quite coincidentally, noticed some guys out the front of our unit today, and they said they were NBN and we should be connected in 6-7 months.

Given the dramas with actually getting connected, the peak hour speed drops, and the higher monthly costs, there's a bit of trepidation.

The Liberal / National government has so much to answer for IMO. It truly is a monumental disaster that will negatively impact the economy for decades when we fall further and further behind the rest of the world, or spend many more billions to upgrade to what was going to be built in the first place.

Re: How Australia's $49B internet network came to be ridiculed

#130
post #36
post #13

By 'fit for service' they mean 12Mbps down, or average copper wire speeds. What's the point? Although the original goal was great, in hindsight it appears that it could not be delivered anywhere near the original budget. For context, after a prolonged period of centre-right government, a centre-left government was elected, led by Kevin Rudd. He had a progressive agenda, but due to a combination of his unmitigated ego…

> For my part, I'm dropping all wires and switching to 4G/LTE, where I can stream 4K content, get decent uploads and still pay less than I would on the National Broadband network. If everyone does that you'll be lucky to stream youtube videos at 240p. Wireless bandwidth is inherently shared between everyone, wired is dedicated.

yep. 4g relies on most other people doing little more than messaging, looking at facebook and checking maps to see where the nearest noodle place is.

once everyone is pushing video levels of data around then it will be miserable.

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