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How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

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Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#31

Post by awakeasleep »

smnrchrds wrote: post #26
clarkmoody wrote: post #9

One of the best Radiolab episodes I've heard was Mau Mau [1], which chronicled the uncovering of thousands of documents pertaining to the British Empire in Kenya. The extent to which history must be rewritten is stunning, only to be surpassed by the brutality of the English. Not that releasing the JFK assassination files would rewrite an extensive period of history, but the precedent remains: the grim truth of histor…

On a similar note, most Iranians blame the British, who were occupying the country at the time, for the Persian famine of 1917–1919. It is by some accounts estimated that up to half the population died in the famine, while the British were using the agricultural output for their war efforts and enacting policies that made the situation worse. Its portrayal in Iran is like a more aggravated version of the Irish famine…

something like that would really mess with the current narrative the west uses to explain Iran

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#32

Post by ikiris »

agumonkey wrote: post #19
clarkmoody wrote: post #9

One of the best Radiolab episodes I've heard was Mau Mau [1], which chronicled the uncovering of thousands of documents pertaining to the British Empire in Kenya. The extent to which history must be rewritten is stunning, only to be surpassed by the brutality of the English. Not that releasing the JFK assassination files would rewrite an extensive period of history, but the precedent remains: the grim truth of histor…

off-topic opportunity: should history be taught in school ? it's a weird blend of nationalist myth, folklore, ignorant (or not) lies and revisionnism. ps: people I didn't mean to stay ignorant, but hinting at rethinking what we're teaching. History is extremely subtle and trimmed far too much for kids (hence the bad blend I described above).

If you don't learn history there's a huge risk you'll wind up believing republicans

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#33

Post by dfsegoat »

domparise wrote: post #24
agumonkey wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

off-topic opportunity: should history be taught in school ? it's a weird blend of nationalist myth, folklore, ignorant (or not) lies and revisionnism. ps: people I didn't mean to stay ignorant, but hinting at rethinking what we're teaching. History is extremely subtle and trimmed far too much for kids (hence the bad blend I described above).

It may be biased, but the alternative, having no formal history lessons, is far worse. At the very least it provides a shared cultural identity, and presents lessons learned from the past. Hopefully moving forward we won't have to worry so much about the revisionism. With everything being documented the internet, we most likely will just have to content with sifting through it all to find the truth.

>> It may be biased, but the alternative, having no formal history lessons, is far worse.

110%. In America, I would say we ought to be teaching history as fast as possible: We are a Republic of immigrants, fighting for the preservation of an idea - The Constitution of the United States of America. By the way, that constitution happens to make us all equal by default. That's a pretty important lesson for us here to remember in these divisive political times.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#34

Post by jwdunne »

smnrchrds wrote: post #26
clarkmoody wrote: post #9

One of the best Radiolab episodes I've heard was Mau Mau [1], which chronicled the uncovering of thousands of documents pertaining to the British Empire in Kenya. The extent to which history must be rewritten is stunning, only to be surpassed by the brutality of the English. Not that releasing the JFK assassination files would rewrite an extensive period of history, but the precedent remains: the grim truth of histor…

On a similar note, most Iranians blame the British, who were occupying the country at the time, for the Persian famine of 1917–1919. It is by some accounts estimated that up to half the population died in the famine, while the British were using the agricultural output for their war efforts and enacting policies that made the situation worse. Its portrayal in Iran is like a more aggravated version of the Irish famine…

This isn't a stretch to believe. I'm British too.

We did something similar with India. We also allowed the Irish famine to happen too.

History does say we were not a very kind empire - causing famine was not beyond us.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#35

Post by dragontamer »

lstyls wrote: post #7
sharpercoder wrote: post #5

I saw a documentary which analyzed footage found around 2000 iirc (discovered old footage) of the murder. The conclusion was that due to the wound exit, the shooter could never have been Oswald. It convinced me. Who does the American public currently believe to be the shooter? Is there consensus for some theory?

> Who does the American public currently believe to be the shooter? What does this have to do with anything? Reality isn't a democracy. It's absolutely possible the shot came from Oswald. Tastelessness aside, try playing JFK Reloaded ( https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JFK_Reloaded ). Claiming the ballistics don't make sense is as debunked as claiming jet fuel can't melt steel beams.

> claiming jet fuel can't melt steel beams

Just note: Jet Fuel probably can't melt steel beams, because steel has a significantly higher melting point than the temperature of jet fuel.

Of course, Steel Beams are about as strong as a wet-noodle at Jet-fuel temperatures: https://youtu.be/FzF1KySHmUA?t=1m55s

Which of course, would cause the towers to collapse.

But seriously, Jet Fuel doesn't "melt" steel beams. It just weakens them tot he point where they break easily. You can't make ANY mistakes when talking to a conspiracy theorist. They are right about the melting point of steel, but that doesn't help their argument at all.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#36

Post by satya71 »

jwdunne wrote: post #34
smnrchrds wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

On a similar note, most Iranians blame the British, who were occupying the country at the time, for the Persian famine of 1917–1919. It is by some accounts estimated that up to half the population died in the famine, while the British were using the agricultural output for their war efforts and enacting policies that made the situation worse. Its portrayal in Iran is like a more aggravated version of the Irish famine…

This isn't a stretch to believe. I'm British too. We did something similar with India. We also allowed the Irish famine to happen too. History does say we were not a very kind empire - causing famine was not beyond us.

I was under the impression that British schools still teach that colonies actually benefited from British occupation. Looks like you went out of the way to learn the reality. Kudos!

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#37

Post by andy_ppp »

satya71 wrote: post #36
jwdunne wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't a stretch to believe. I'm British too. We did something similar with India. We also allowed the Irish famine to happen too. History does say we were not a very kind empire - causing famine was not beyond us.

I was under the impression that British schools still teach that colonies actually benefited from British occupation. Looks like you went out of the way to learn the reality. Kudos!

It’s just not mentioned anymore... at least in state schools. We will look back at the American empire just as fondly I’m sure.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#38

Post by agumonkey »

alsetmusic wrote: post #21
agumonkey wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

off-topic opportunity: should history be taught in school ? it's a weird blend of nationalist myth, folklore, ignorant (or not) lies and revisionnism. ps: people I didn't mean to stay ignorant, but hinting at rethinking what we're teaching. History is extremely subtle and trimmed far too much for kids (hence the bad blend I described above).

Absolutely. It should be taught because knowing history informs our present and future decisions. At the same time, we should educate young people on the realities of one-sided history and the constantly evolving landscape of history. Teach kids to seek more multiple sources and interpretations.

That's the kind of idea I was trying to raise in comments. Criticizing the state of education doesn't mean wishing for no education.

Re: How to Read the JFK Assassination Files

#40

Post by indubitable »

wallace_f wrote: post #2

Hypothetically, if a group of people was willing to go to all the trouble of breaking laws to assassinate a President, what's forcing them to be honorable in producing and releasing information implicating themselves? It seems any excitement is contingent on believing not just in the conspiracy, but also in extreme incompetence, no?

I would be surprised if the releases containing anything especially new, but the government most certainly maintains incriminating information on themselves. For instance we now know that the FBI discovered compromising information on MLK and tried to black mail him into suicide. [1] They also discovered his infidelity through surveillance and contacted his wife again trying to damage his character. This was all well documented and maintained for decades after it had happened. If you want death and murder, there's things like US involvement in Operation Condor [2] which was long speculated but finally fully verified by documents declassified under Clinton. And there are countless other examples.

Releases staggered by decades come with great plausible deniability. Is the FBI today responsible for what the FBI of the past did to MLK? If anything relevant was revealed, I'd expect the modern versions of the involved agencies to be the first condemn those actions. Whether that's genuine or not is practically impossible to know. But it's almost certainly sufficient to ensure they'll never face any meaningful consequences for their actions.

[1] - https://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2014/11/fbis-suicide-letter-dr...

[2] - https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Condor#U.S._involvem...

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