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Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

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Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#161

Post by libertyEQ »

mindslight wrote: post #104
blfr wrote: post #13

Why has free speech fallen out of favour with SV? Ironically, it happened rather silently. It's not just an Eternal September-like phenomenon. The very same people who used to support it not only don't any more but pretend they never did in the first place. Speaking of the founding fathers, I ask him what he thinks they would have thought of Reddit. "A bastion of free speech on the World Wide Web? I bet they would li…

Fundamentally, it is the Eternal September phenomenon - the majority believes in censorship by the majority. Prominent individuals' opinions have shifted because they are now the establishment. Rather than a VC-funded startup with high upside and low downside, they are now an accounting-based business with high downside and low upside. The majority demands censorship - inevitable with centralized communications techn…

I'm thinking, perhaps optimistically, that we are at "Final September" as our less nerdy brethren become accustomed to things we've known for 20 years.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#162

Post by Thisisdense »

glenstein wrote: post #138
celticninja wrote: post #86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well to be fair, one is entirely bad, jut to be clear thats the Nazis. There may be some rogue elements in the other groups who perhaps would use violence to further their cause but it is not their fundamental belief. Whereas Nazi ideology specifically calls for the extermination of others, neither of the other 2 groups are anywhere remotely near that position. There are no good Nazis. Sure there were some Nazis in W…

This is part of the problem with these debates that I've noticed: it's an attempt on the one hand to carry on the debate purely in terms of free speech, abstracted from the contents of any particular ideology. And yet, part of what makes you "wrong" to oppose speech of particular groups is that you are just as bad as them. That's a judgment of the "wrongness" of a particular ideology, being directly appealed to, to j…

Well, Hitler was elected democratically.

So as far as I can see, being anti-nazi was poorly seen and unpopular in 1933.

And that's why free speech is important.

So that the few can still speak and be heard.

The majority can be wrong, and single-minded conformism can be both wrong and violent.

It's not just a nazis problem (which is just a contraction of National-Socialist).

Schindler was a Nazi.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#163

Post by uoaei »

jquery wrote: post #68
_euac wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, just maybe, it's because the "far left" subreddit doesn't have content calling for ethnic cleansing? Just saying.

No, they want to cleanse the bourgeoisie, they're very multi-ethnic in their genocides. And not all of the far left is colorblind, we generally consider people who want to ethnically cleanse white people as far left.

They specifically advocate for inclusion of races, and a destruction of a class system. Nowhere in this does "color" or "ethnicity" make its way into this.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#164

Post by Thisisdense »

libertyEQ wrote: post #139
celticninja wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nazism calls for the death and extermination of other people, antifa and BLM don't.

There are people in this thread claiming antifa and BLM are responsible for most violence in the last few years. The arguments being put forth by 'the other side' are not what you claim, and 'these folks' are going to couch their arguments the way they want.

I didn't see anyone spousing the idea that "BLM and antifa are responsible for most violence in the last few years", but can you say with a straight face that no member of these groups ever spurred violent confrontations?

While you're at it, can you also say that everyone of the so called nazis did indeed started confrontations?

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#165

Post by dragonwriter »

mozumder wrote: post #34
KGIII wrote: post #6

It's really, really not easy to stand up for the rights of Nazis. If you're a Nazi, you can use voat.co as they are very free speech oriented. You don't have to be a Nazi to participate, but it's a good idea to have a thick skin if you do go there. I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. They know I'm not white and that I don't agree with them. They don't scare me. They are scared a…

Technically, you're supposed to actually kill Nazis, since the US government (and many others) literally declared war against them. Anything short of that is just a gratuity towards them. Honestly, Americans aren't horrified enough by the mere existence of these people, treating them as an academic concept. If you actually know Nazis, you already know they're an extremely violent group. It took only a few days of me…

> Technically, you're supposed to actually kill Nazis, since the US government (and many others) literally declared war against them.

No, the government declared war on Germany, not the Nazis. And that war ended with the surrender of the German military and the assumption of civil authority in Germany by the Allies, so killing people based on that war is no longer something anyone is supposed to do.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#166

Post by dragonwriter »

mozumder wrote: post #111
Wellshit wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Technically, you're supposed to actually kill Nazis, since the US government (and many others) literally declared war against them. Technically, you're advocating for violence against a group of people. Should you be banned? Hope you can see the slippery slope.

Me? It's the US government that's advocating violence against a group of people. If you have issues with killing Nazis, take it up with them. It's as if people have no idea what Nazis actually are.

> It's the US government that's advocating violence against a group of people

The US government stopped advocating violence based on the declaration you point to more than 70 years ago.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#167

Post by Thisisdense »

yodsanklai wrote: post #107
mschuster91 wrote: post #8

Hmm. This is going to be interesting. I mean, nearly everyone should be fine with banning Nazis. After all, they're vile and in my opinion don't deserve any place on the world except the inside of a jail cell... The problem is: where will the line be drawn? What about Black Lives Matter? The more, uh, militant parts of the Antifa movement? Militant animal rights groups (which actually are treated as domestic terroris…

> where will the line be drawn? It's a difficult question. As much as I'm for free speech and against censorship, I still have the feeling that a line has to be drawn somewhere. For instance, we can't reasonably authorize Isis propaganda on public forums, can we? Actually, now that I'm thinking about it, I suppose that calls to violence are already forbidden. I'm not familiar with US free speech laws, but I remember…

> For instance, we can't reasonably authorize Isis propaganda on public forums, can we?

But we can authorize American propaganda?

Who killed more people in these two groups?

In fact, what tells you that Isis is not an American construct?

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#168

Post by KGIII »

uoaei wrote: post #155
KGIII wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Again, I ask what good is a right if one can not reasonably exercise it? I also suggest we are veering too far from the topic. To be very, very clear - Reddit is under no obligation to allow anything they do not wish to allow.

No one's rights are being infringed upon. The right to free speech is certainly still in their hands. Their audience is then anyone within earshot. Your question seems to me to be a red herring, and doesn't seem relevant in the discussion surrounding web-based fora. While "the internet" in some abstract form could be construed as a human right in this modern technological world of ours, the World Wide Web as it stand…

Let's try something.

Do you believe that the Internet should be a basic human right, that affordable access should be made reasonably available for everyone on the planet?

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#169

Post by mcphage »

briantakita wrote: post #61
KGIII wrote: post #6

It's really, really not easy to stand up for the rights of Nazis. If you're a Nazi, you can use voat.co as they are very free speech oriented. You don't have to be a Nazi to participate, but it's a good idea to have a thick skin if you do go there. I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. They know I'm not white and that I don't agree with them. They don't scare me. They are scared a…

> I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. Nazi is a term loosely used today. Actual 3rd Reich Nazis commandeered by America & the Soviet Union after WW2. Wernher von Braun was a committed Nazi & was allegedly a willing participate in WW2 war crimes. See Operation Paperclip for more info. https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Operation_Paperclip > They are scared and powerless, looking for mea…

> since Identity Politics has not been kind toward white people & the majority of white people think they are discriminated against

That's true... before Identity Politics, white people had most of the money and power and authority in this country. But now thanks to Identity Politics, white people have only... well, most of the money and power and authority in this country.

Huh.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#170

Post by itsdrewmiller »

KGIII wrote: post #81
sighwhatnow wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But, they still deserve to express themselves freely. Um, why. What makes you think this. If someone's opinions are stupid and abhorrent, why should they not experience an immediate and firm response, in ban-hammer form. Why do you want to give ignorant idiots a platform to spread their ignorant idiocy to other ignorant idiots (and e.g. provoke easily influenced mentally ill idiots who might want to drive cars into…

Because we as a society have decided even the least among us deserve a base amount of human rights and freedoms and those aren't taken away without due process in a just society. I don't expect to change your mind. It's okay. I'm just really, really pro human rights. I've seen places with massive deprivations of rights. That's not okay.

You are conflating the “least” among us with the “worst” among us. We actually only have sympathy for the former.
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