Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content • Hacker News Board

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#81

Post by KGIII » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:10 PM UTC

sighwhatnow wrote: post #72

KGIII wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd argue they have no moral obligation to do any such thing. However, they should probably make a pretty clear warning sign. I fear we will digress too far. In short, I'm very pro freedom of expression. I'm glad voat exists, for example. The people there are often horrible, that is true. But, they still deserve to express themselves freely.

> But, they still deserve to express themselves freely. Um, why. What makes you think this. If someone's opinions are stupid and abhorrent, why should they not experience an immediate and firm response, in ban-hammer form. Why do you want to give ignorant idiots a platform to spread their ignorant idiocy to other ignorant idiots (and e.g. provoke easily influenced mentally ill idiots who might want to drive cars into…

Because we as a society have decided even the least among us deserve a base amount of human rights and freedoms and those aren't taken away without due process in a just society.

I don't expect to change your mind. It's okay. I'm just really, really pro human rights. I've seen places with massive deprivations of rights. That's not okay.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#82

Post by arkona » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:11 PM UTC

acuozzo wrote: post #79

arkona wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to give some evidence for your claims?

1. https://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentim... 2. https://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentim...

> vice

Got any real source?

Vice is the king of sensationalist dishonest journalism. I wouldn’t put it past them if they created accounts to post racist comments and take screenshots

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#83

Post by PhasmaFelis » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:11 PM UTC

aaron-lebo wrote: post #45

michaelchisari wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

there's a better way to deal with the mentally ill and disenfranchised Enabling them is not a good way to deal with them. Allowing easily discoverable safe spaces with which to reinforce their neuroses and paranoia only adds to the problem as new users can more easily be recruited, preyed upon, etc. This goes for much more than just violent white supremacists, it also applies to things like pro-ana, which creates an…

The effect your are talking about seems legit. The flip side about that is if you force these groups out of the public and then into the shadows, that's only proving the paranoia. Does that radicalize things even more? The same kind of viewpoints existed in the mid 90s, underground, and that lead to OKC which was one of the worst terrorist incidents in US history. Is it better or worse that this is happening in publi…

I'm really torn on this. On the one hand, these are humans, not monsters; their views can be changed, perhaps, but not if we force them into hiding and radicalize them. On the other hand, giving them power and influence in public spaces, the ability to disrupt other people's discourse and lives at will, is not okay.

I'm not sure there is one best solution. We need to give bigots a chance to change their views, and we also need to protect their victims and potential victims, and those things are sometimes mutually exclusive.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#84

Post by oh_sigh » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:11 PM UTC

acuozzo wrote: post #79

arkona wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to give some evidence for your claims?

1. https://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentim... 2. https://motherboard-images.vice.com/content-images/contentim...

In your second link, all of the comments are downvoted to zero. Give me any subreddit and I can show you horrible comments that are sitting at zero upvotes.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#85

Post by KGIII » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:11 PM UTC

michaelchisari wrote: post #70

KGIII wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's a bit of a problem, really. They take URLs away, they refuse to host them, etc... So, I'd say what good are rights if you can't reasonably exercise them? Don't get me wrong, I really don't like Nazis. They are pretty much the definition of bad people. So, I try to empathize. We all want to belong to something. They like firearms. Me too. I love a good explosion, though I'd much prefer it not actually hurt anyone…

Reddit is not a basic human right. You have a right to free speech, but society has no obligation to provide you a megaphone and a soapbox.

You didn't read what I wrote. Reddit is absolutely free to do this. Voat exists, if they want a place to speak.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#86

Post by celticninja » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

wccrawford wrote: post #56

keepper wrote: post #27

Amazing ( well, more like sad ) that the first comments I see are "well, we can agree that nazis are bad, but this is a slippery slope, what about BLM, and antifa" Nazism - The belief ( on pseudoscience i may add )that other races ( a term that has no scientific basis ) are only worthy of extermination ( death, MDK ) BLM - The belief ( on experiences of some in society ), that Black people are not treated the same in…

Of course people are going to question your definitions when you've gone overboard in making one absolutely wrong and the others absolutely right. There's bad in both sets, which is why banning 1 group could have an effect on the other 2, eventually.

Well to be fair, one is entirely bad, jut to be clear thats the Nazis. There may be some rogue elements in the other groups who perhaps would use violence to further their cause but it is not their fundamental belief. Whereas Nazi ideology specifically calls for the extermination of others, neither of the other 2 groups are anywhere remotely near that position.

There are no good Nazis. Sure there were some Nazis in WWII that were Nazis because they were German soldiers and not necessarily because they wanted to exterminate Jews and gypsies, so some of them did good things (not in the name of the Nazis but because they were not entirely evil people) but anyone claiming to be a Nazi today is doing so because they believe in Nazism ideologically and everything that goes into with it.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#87

Post by chiefalchemist » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

KGIII wrote: post #6

It's really, really not easy to stand up for the rights of Nazis. If you're a Nazi, you can use voat.co as they are very free speech oriented. You don't have to be a Nazi to participate, but it's a good idea to have a thick skin if you do go there. I go there and talk to the White Nationalists. They are pretty much Nazis. They know I'm not white and that I don't agree with them. They don't scare me. They are scared a…

Full disclosure: I'm a white male.

With that said, I agree with you. That is, bringing these things into the light will do more good then empowering them by marginalizing them.

As you've experienced, by shining your personal flashlight (so to speak), they wither in the light.

Yes, what they're selling is deplorable. But if you believe that the arc of the universe bends towards justice, then letting them stand in the spotlight will show how weak their arguments are.

On the other hand, pushing them into the shadows is where they find their strength.

p.s. Kudos to you for being so brave.

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#88

Post by oh_sigh » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:12 PM UTC

pknopf wrote: post #32

arkona wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to give some evidence for your claims?

Go to the sub and click the first post you see. Evidence provided. edit: Here is the first non-stickied post I found. https://g.redditmedia.com/lWzOghJ9C76p2rMmU3CDWhHTtojbXJ9vlu... > Here is Hillary Clinton shitting herself on 9/11 > Did PETA publicly complain about the handling of that cattle? > THE SIDE OF BEEF MARRIED A RAPIST!!! > Hope she had her shitting pants on

First post seen at the top of the front T_D page is this: http://dailycaller.com/2017/10/26/the-last-time-hillary-had-...

Which is making fun of a HRC tweet from last october which said "Happy Birthday to this future president".

Doesn't seem very hateful to me.

edit: Basd on your edit, I'm curious what you find hateful about this? HRC passed out on 9/11/16 and was dragged into a waiting van. There is a longstanding meme (in meme-years) about HRC being thrown into the van "like a side of beef", which explains some comments.

Yes, the comments are crass, but is being crass the same thing as "promoting violence and hate"?

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#89

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:13 PM UTC

pknopf wrote: post #32

arkona wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Care to give some evidence for your claims?

Go to the sub and click the first post you see. Evidence provided. edit: Here is the first non-stickied post I found. https://g.redditmedia.com/lWzOghJ9C76p2rMmU3CDWhHTtojbXJ9vlu... > Here is Hillary Clinton shitting herself on 9/11 > Did PETA publicly complain about the handling of that cattle? > THE SIDE OF BEEF MARRIED A RAPIST!!! > Hope she had her shitting pants on

[deleted]

Re: Reddit Bans Nazi Groups and Others in Crackdown on Violent Content

#90

Post by michaelchisari » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 10:13 PM UTC

KGIII wrote: post #85

michaelchisari wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Reddit is not a basic human right. You have a right to free speech, but society has no obligation to provide you a megaphone and a soapbox.

You didn't read what I wrote. Reddit is absolutely free to do this. Voat exists, if they want a place to speak.

I did read what you wrote. You are not arguing for the right to free speech, you are arguing for a right to a platform (yet referring to such as an appeal to free speech).

And there is no such thing. There is no right to a platform for your speech. You are allowed to say it, but nobody has any obligation to repeat, produce, disseminate or validate your speech.