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Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

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Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#21

Post by savanaly »

_wc0m wrote: post #9

Rent is an amazingly effective means of redistributing wealth upwards. I have easily paid over £100k rent in my life, always to people substantially richer than I am. Always enjoyed this Churchill quote - from 1909! Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains -- and all the while the landlord sits s…

If this is true, why is the return on owning land not better than the return on the stock market, at least in the estimation of most economists? Unless you have some comparative advantage in owning/administering to land, it's not actually such a sweet deal relative to normal investing.

Owning land is "free money" in that you tie up your wealth and in exchange get interest. Same deal with owning stocks. Land isn't special, nor is it really helpful to view it as a "redistribution of wealth upwards" in my opinion.

Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#22

Post by leggomylibro »

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Seems the economy is finding the sweet spot where education, housing and health extract the maximum amount of money from people right before they break. Finding that spot while a avoiding a revolution has been the biggest challenge for ruling classes throughout all of history.

No wonder everyone is offing themselves with heavy narcotics these days!

...uh, not to make light of the huge issue we have with addiction, but you gotta feel like prospects might help peoples' moods.

Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#23

Post by toomuchtodo »

mindcrime wrote: post #20
_wc0m wrote: post #9

Rent is an amazingly effective means of redistributing wealth upwards. I have easily paid over £100k rent in my life, always to people substantially richer than I am. Always enjoyed this Churchill quote - from 1909! Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains -- and all the while the landlord sits s…

So what's your point? Do you want to eliminate rent? Should people who either can't afford to purchase a house, or who simply don't want to, be forced into homelessness? Personally I've paid over $115,000 in rent over the past 12 years, but I don't begrudge my landlord their money. I attained utility in exchange for the rent I paid, and have no problem with the arrangement. Not, of course, to say that I'm happy when…

No, no one is advocating for eliminating rent. I (EDIT: removed "We") am advocating for tilting the scales back towards labor though.

* No depreciation allowance on rental property that is almost always going to appreciate [1]

* No 1031 exchanges, deferring capital gains forever [2]

* No mortgage interest deduction, which encourages the wealthy to bid up real estate since their leverage is tax advantaged. [3]

* Co-Ops acquiring property for renting to citizens when possible [4]

[1] https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/2728/41560-understanding...

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Internal_Revenue_Code_section_...

[3] https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/shame-m...

[4] http://www.yesmagazine.org/people-power/in-berlin-a-model-fo...

EDIT: @ mcbruiser3: When I say "we" (which I removed above), people who share my progressive political view that people/humans/"labor" should be treated with priority over capital and rentseeking.

Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#24

Post by mcbruiser3 »

_wc0m wrote: post #9

Rent is an amazingly effective means of redistributing wealth upwards. I have easily paid over £100k rent in my life, always to people substantially richer than I am. Always enjoyed this Churchill quote - from 1909! Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains -- and all the while the landlord sits s…

I love how some folks complain about paying rent as if they have no choices, as if they're somehow indentured servants or serfs beholden to the landed gentry or something.

The truth is you do have choices, even in tough times. Find a way to save money for a down payment and buy some property. Maybe even become a landlord yourself.

Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#25

Post by pc86 »

_wc0m wrote: post #9

Rent is an amazingly effective means of redistributing wealth upwards. I have easily paid over £100k rent in my life, always to people substantially richer than I am. Always enjoyed this Churchill quote - from 1909! Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains -- and all the while the landlord sits s…

And what you received in exchange for that was a lifetime of not being homeless, having no maintenance or (immediate or direct) tax responsibilities, and the freedom to leave without having to sell an expensive, illiquid asset.

Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#26

Post by gumby »

maxxxxx wrote: post #6

Seems the economy is finding the sweet spot where education, housing and health extract the maximum amount of money from people right before they break. Finding that spot while a avoiding a revolution has been the biggest challenge for ruling classes throughout all of history.

Calls to mind my favorite Colbert‡ quote: "The art of taxation consists in so plucking the goose as to procure the largest quantity of feathers with the least possible amount of hissing."

Taxes were privatized under the ancien régime (a tax collector committed to handing over a fixed sum and then was welcome to use whatever means he wished to go collected it -- and was free to keep the profits). The integration of many big businesses with government in the US (not just military-industrial but telecoms, banking etc) through regulatory capture and quid pro quo really resembles this system.

‡ Jean-Baptiste Colbert, I mean, Louis XIV's finance minister after the 30 years war. Probably more popular around here for the story that "laissez-faire economics" came from a conversation he had.

Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#27

Post by mindcrime »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #23
mindcrime wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's your point? Do you want to eliminate rent? Should people who either can't afford to purchase a house, or who simply don't want to, be forced into homelessness? Personally I've paid over $115,000 in rent over the past 12 years, but I don't begrudge my landlord their money. I attained utility in exchange for the rent I paid, and have no problem with the arrangement. Not, of course, to say that I'm happy when…

No, no one is advocating for eliminating rent. I (EDIT: removed "We") am advocating for tilting the scales back towards labor though. * No depreciation allowance on rental property that is almost always going to appreciate [1] * No 1031 exchanges, deferring capital gains forever [2] * No mortgage interest deduction, which encourages the wealthy to bid up real estate since their leverage is tax advantaged. [3] * Co-Op…

Fair enough!

Coops acquiring property for renting to citizens when possible

Yes, this sounds like a good idea. As a Libertarian, I like this model because it is compatible with private property rights, and doesn't demand some sort of government intervention.

Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#28

Post by eli_gottlieb »

mindcrime wrote: post #20
_wc0m wrote: post #9

Rent is an amazingly effective means of redistributing wealth upwards. I have easily paid over £100k rent in my life, always to people substantially richer than I am. Always enjoyed this Churchill quote - from 1909! Roads are made, streets are made, services are improved, electric light turns night into day, water is brought from reservoirs a hundred miles off in the mountains -- and all the while the landlord sits s…

So what's your point? Do you want to eliminate rent? Should people who either can't afford to purchase a house, or who simply don't want to, be forced into homelessness? Personally I've paid over $115,000 in rent over the past 12 years, but I don't begrudge my landlord their money. I attained utility in exchange for the rent I paid, and have no problem with the arrangement. Not, of course, to say that I'm happy when…

>Do you want to eliminate rent?

Yes. Land should be held by housing cooperatives or by private owner-occupiers. Rentiers can go find a line of business that contributes to society.

Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#29

Post by bhauer »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #23
mindcrime wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's your point? Do you want to eliminate rent? Should people who either can't afford to purchase a house, or who simply don't want to, be forced into homelessness? Personally I've paid over $115,000 in rent over the past 12 years, but I don't begrudge my landlord their money. I attained utility in exchange for the rent I paid, and have no problem with the arrangement. Not, of course, to say that I'm happy when…

No, no one is advocating for eliminating rent. I (EDIT: removed "We") am advocating for tilting the scales back towards labor though. * No depreciation allowance on rental property that is almost always going to appreciate [1] * No 1031 exchanges, deferring capital gains forever [2] * No mortgage interest deduction, which encourages the wealthy to bid up real estate since their leverage is tax advantaged. [3] * Co-Op…

As a landowner, I would happily discard the mortgage interest deduction. And 1031s and depreciation allowances. Oh and toss California's Proposition 13 as well.

In exchange, I would request a dramatically simplified tax code that avoids mechanisms such as these across the board. And reduced zoning regulations to allow more housing supply.

Re: Rising Rents Are Pushing More Tenants Past the Breaking Point

#30

Post by mcbruiser3 »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #23
mindcrime wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So what's your point? Do you want to eliminate rent? Should people who either can't afford to purchase a house, or who simply don't want to, be forced into homelessness? Personally I've paid over $115,000 in rent over the past 12 years, but I don't begrudge my landlord their money. I attained utility in exchange for the rent I paid, and have no problem with the arrangement. Not, of course, to say that I'm happy when…

No, no one is advocating for eliminating rent. I (EDIT: removed "We") am advocating for tilting the scales back towards labor though. * No depreciation allowance on rental property that is almost always going to appreciate [1] * No 1031 exchanges, deferring capital gains forever [2] * No mortgage interest deduction, which encourages the wealthy to bid up real estate since their leverage is tax advantaged. [3] * Co-Op…

only fair if you reduce the tax burden dramatically as well. this would not just impact "evil landlords" but most of middle class as well.

and who is "we" exactly?

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