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How Unreal Renders a Frame

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Re: How Unreal Renders a Frame

#21

Post by bobthedino »

test1235 wrote: post #15
mrweasel wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm completely fascinated that games can perform massive amounts of math and render 120 frames per second, while some business applications fail to do completely basic data manipulation in an reasonable time frame.

I think it comes down to requirements. If games aren't running smoothly, people simply won't play them. Business apps have it a lot easier - the users are more forgiving, I guess either because they don't have a choice in the matter or any better options.

Also the people who buy business apps are often not the people who actually have to use them every day. So UI/UX ends up being a much lower priority than say cost.

Re: How Unreal Renders a Frame

#23

Post by pjc50 »

lordnacho wrote: post #14

This is why I don't get why the game industry has such a bad rep for overworking people. It's genuinely hard to do this kind of code so you'd think they take care not to scare away the few people who can do it. I recall at one point Goldmans was bragging to my team about how they'd hired a game dev to do their click-to-trade currency UI. Seemed like the guy found an easier job for more pay.

People get into the games industry for the "intrinsic reward" (ie they think it's cool) rather than the money or the working conditions. The games industry exploits this badly.

Re: How Unreal Renders a Frame

#24

Post by Narishma »

hacker_9 wrote: post #17
2sk21 wrote: post #6

So all of this processing happens for one frame? And this is going on at 60 Hz?

This mostly all translates to math equations, and with data oriented design a computer can crunch through this stuff extremely quickly. But this kind of stuff is why C++ is still popular - determinism is really important to get consistent performance at this low level. Also shader code is quite restrictive in order to keep performance up. Edit: replaced 'driven' with 'oriented' - thanks Narishma

I think you mean data-oriented design, data-driven is something different.

Re: How Unreal Renders a Frame

#25

Post by hacker_9 »

mrweasel wrote: post #13
2sk21 wrote: post #6

So all of this processing happens for one frame? And this is going on at 60 Hz?

I'm completely fascinated that games can perform massive amounts of math and render 120 frames per second, while some business applications fail to do completely basic data manipulation in an reasonable time frame.

Different hardware setup - that business might have a database that is dealing with millions of other users at the same time too. In which case they need to invest more in their infrastructure.

Re: How Unreal Renders a Frame

#26

Post by vvillena »

maccard wrote: post #19
royale93 wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The situation has changed a little bit recently with the introduction of adaptive synchronization monitor standards(GSync and Freesync). On PC this means that framerates above some minimum target can drift without experiencing tearing or missed deadlines.

Indeed, that's what I meant by "most hardware", but that hardware is definitely outside the reach of most people right now. Firstly, consoles don't support adaptive sync, and most tv's don't either, so that eliminates all PS4/XB1 (and their derivatives). Then to actually get a screen with GSync, you're talking ~350 pounds [0] for an entry level one, and realistically you're going to need a medium to high-end graphics…

GSync is expensive because it needs a special chip in the screen. Freesync is cheap and has been made into a standard.

Re: How Unreal Renders a Frame

#27

Post by pavlov »

lordnacho wrote: post #14

This is why I don't get why the game industry has such a bad rep for overworking people. It's genuinely hard to do this kind of code so you'd think they take care not to scare away the few people who can do it. I recall at one point Goldmans was bragging to my team about how they'd hired a game dev to do their click-to-trade currency UI. Seemed like the guy found an easier job for more pay.

Game industry is like Hollywood. There's an endless supply of highly talented hopefuls from all around the world who want to get into the industry more than anything else.

The focus of exploitation is just different -- the Harvey Weinsteins of the game industry don't try to sleep with brilliant Romanian programmers, instead they work them to death.

Re: How Unreal Renders a Frame

#28

Post by avar »

lordnacho wrote: post #14

This is why I don't get why the game industry has such a bad rep for overworking people. It's genuinely hard to do this kind of code so you'd think they take care not to scare away the few people who can do it. I recall at one point Goldmans was bragging to my team about how they'd hired a game dev to do their click-to-trade currency UI. Seemed like the guy found an easier job for more pay.

This is a bit like saying "I don't get why web development is overworking people, just look at all this cool stuff Google is doing with the Go runtime!".

Most people who work in the game industry are not doing deep game engine hacking, but doing grunt work like scripting/designing some scene in a giant adventure game who's going to have thousands of those, and all of those need to be finished before the release date.

Re: How Unreal Renders a Frame

#29

Post by mariusmg »

pavlov wrote: post #27
lordnacho wrote: post #14

This is why I don't get why the game industry has such a bad rep for overworking people. It's genuinely hard to do this kind of code so you'd think they take care not to scare away the few people who can do it. I recall at one point Goldmans was bragging to my team about how they'd hired a game dev to do their click-to-trade currency UI. Seemed like the guy found an easier job for more pay.

Game industry is like Hollywood. There's an endless supply of highly talented hopefuls from all around the world who want to get into the industry more than anything else. The focus of exploitation is just different -- the Harvey Weinsteins of the game industry don't try to sleep with brilliant Romanian programmers, instead they work them to death.

"the Harvey Weinsteins of the game industry don't try to sleep with brilliant Romanian programmers, instead they work them to death."

As a romanian programmer (although not in the game industry), i must admit this is a very eloquently put. Hats off to you sir.

Re: How Unreal Renders a Frame

#30

Post by daemin »

krige wrote: post #3
RoboTeddy wrote: post #2

Sheesh. How many engineer-hours have gone into Unreal?

A hell of a lot, the engine itself was in development for around three years IIRC

The engine has engineering effort in it since the late 1990's since some of the code is that old. (I say this because I remember learning from the mod SDK back in the day, and I've looked into what it is now). So almost 2 decades worth of engineering effort has gone into it. Granted a bunch of that effort has been in rewriting systems which needed to be updated (like rendering).
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