Live data from Hacker News

Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

nature.com

11–20 of 292 posts

Re: Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

#11
post #2

> Permanent jobs in academia are scarce, and someone needs to let PhD students know. If you are studying on a PhD level and have not figured that out already, that's kinda on you.

These are usually people that have always been the best in their class through their academic careers. The idea that they might be the ones to not get a position, because they are not good enough for it may not be something they have experienced /consider possible for themselves.

Re: Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

#12
I am currently pursuing MS in Biological Sciences on animal behavior. I want to do Phd then Post-doc and then continue in the science field. But I am not very talented. Most probably I may get stuck after Phd or Post doc.

I don't want job. But looking into these kinds of articles now and then, make me think "what are the alternatives ?" What about the people who do basic science like in theoretical physics or pure maths?

Re: Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

#13
post #3

The hard truth. I wonder if a new scheme of collaborative research (to share costs) out of academia can possibly pop out. But this is hardly possible given the high costs of equipment and consumables, especially in the natural and technical sciences. Bygone are the days (in the 18th-19th century) when a single brilliant scientist could singe-handedly revolutionize his field in his home lab (the "garage" of the day).

Don't tell Peter Mitchell that his garage experiment won't work!!

Re: Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

#14

The longer students stay in a PhD program, the less likely they want to be professors. Typically many first year students say this, but the numbers quickly drop off in later years. When I was a PhD student, I gave a few talks and blogged about this issue. I would present all these statistics in my talks about what they needed to do to be competitive, and people just absolutely hated me for it. One person said she wan…

If anyone is interested, here are my old blog posts on the requirements for getting an interview for a professorship at a top-50 school: [1] http://www.chriskanan.com/planning-for-life-after-your-phd/ [2] http://www.chriskanan.com/statistics-on-computer-science-pro... [3] http://www.chriskanan.com/statistics-on-ucsds-computer-scien...

From your [3] above, do theory PhD graduates usually have more or fewer publications?

What would be your guesstimates of the mean/median number of first author publications of faculty candidates at a top school?

"Number First Author Publications (excluding theory folks)

Mean: 12.8±6.5

Median: 14.5

Range: 2 – 25"

Re: Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

#15

The longer students stay in a PhD program, the less likely they want to be professors. Typically many first year students say this, but the numbers quickly drop off in later years. When I was a PhD student, I gave a few talks and blogged about this issue. I would present all these statistics in my talks about what they needed to do to be competitive, and people just absolutely hated me for it. One person said she wan…

I'm really interested in applications of technology (including AI, ML, etc.) in business. But the only way I can get into any US university is by doing a Ph.D. (I live abroad).

Is it at all possible for a person doing Operations/MIS/Quant_marketing - whose main job is econometrics and ML - to not end up in academia after completing his Ph.D.?

Re: Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

#16

Doing a PhD thesis these days doesn't necessarily makes you cut out to be a scientist. One can speculate if job prospects differs across disciplines.

Just because one is a good scientist doesn't necessarily mean one is cut out to be a professional scientist.

Re: Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

#18
post #12

I am currently pursuing MS in Biological Sciences on animal behavior. I want to do Phd then Post-doc and then continue in the science field. But I am not very talented. Most probably I may get stuck after Phd or Post doc. I don't want job. But looking into these kinds of articles now and then, make me think "what are the alternatives ?" What about the people who do basic science like in theoretical physics or pure ma…

There are different possibilities for doing research. Note how the current top comment here talks of becoming a "professor", and the featured article talks about "permanent staff position[s] at a university".

If what you want is to do research, then what you want is not necessarily one of these. There are lots of research labs, both public and private, where you can get a permanent position. If you're in animal behavior, you might end up in a zoo, doing research part time or full time. These positions are overlooked by these articles since there you are not a "professor" at a "university". In other words, "X% of PhDs become professors" is a very misleading statistic.

But yeah, that is still not enough to employ all the PhDs out there. I think in theoretical physics or math you just end up going into finance...

Re: Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

#19
post #12

I am currently pursuing MS in Biological Sciences on animal behavior. I want to do Phd then Post-doc and then continue in the science field. But I am not very talented. Most probably I may get stuck after Phd or Post doc. I don't want job. But looking into these kinds of articles now and then, make me think "what are the alternatives ?" What about the people who do basic science like in theoretical physics or pure ma…

I’m doing a PhD in Theoretical Physics, I hedge the uncertainty of academia by finding small opportunities in other fields to do work in. Internships in science communication, teaching at the university, part time work for a tech start up. On their own, none of them are a safety net for jumping out of academia if you have to, but if you accumulate enough experience over the years, the hope is that transitioning to industry goes a bit smoother. There’s also a few fellowship/transitional schemes opening up for PhDs in esoteric fields to go into things like Data Science/Software Development. I think you just have to keep a level head and pursue things while it seems reasonable and always keep in mind the dream can pop at any moment and you may have to move around and go into something else.

Re: Many junior scientists need to take a hard look at their job prospects

#20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If anyone is interested, here are my old blog posts on the requirements for getting an interview for a professorship at a top-50 school: [1] http://www.chriskanan.com/planning-for-life-after-your-phd/ [2] http://www.chriskanan.com/statistics-on-computer-science-pro... [3] http://www.chriskanan.com/statistics-on-ucsds-computer-scien...

From your [3] above, do theory PhD graduates usually have more or fewer publications? What would be your guesstimates of the mean/median number of first author publications of faculty candidates at a top school? "Number First Author Publications (excluding theory folks) Mean: 12.8±6.5 Median: 14.5 Range: 2 – 25"

In other areas of computer science, first author counts for a lot. It indicates a person did the majority of the implementation work, probably wrote the first draft of the paper, etc. Typically the last author is the PI that came up with the idea, mentored the first author, and funded the work. The contributions of those in the middle are less well defined.

In CS theory (and math), they go by alphabetical author order, so none of the aforementioned rules work unless there is only a single author. So, I excluded the theory folks from the first author analysis.

Post reply on HN