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I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

381–390 of 545 posts

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#381
I'm curious about the companies where the author has worked, because they must be using a lot of open source libraries internally. If the author's GitHub profile is completely bare, then it means they've never forked a library to fix a bug, or added a new feature and submitted a pull request.

I don't care if you don't do that in your spare time. I don't know what languages or frameworks the author uses, but I probably won't hire a Rails or React developer if they'v never contributed to any open source projects. If they've never come across a single gem or npm package that needs a bug fix or a new feature, then they probably don't have enough experience.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#382
The bottom line is, each developer is responsible for showcasing their own skill. One of the best ways to do that is through sharing programs you've written on GitHub. If you don't want to do that, you better find some other way to show off to an employer.

If you are unwilling or don't have time to create a public code repo or your own blog/website, you should be willing to take a skill assessment test from the employer. If you aren't willing to do any of that, I don't know how you can expect an employer to gauge your skill. You can't just provide a reference and expect them to hire you just because someone vouches for you.

You may think it's unfair that you have to go out of your way to make yourself look good to an employer but...that's the way the world works. I think the misconception is that people think 'having a side project' means writing a prolific open source project. You can spend 1 hour per week on coding small programs and have a great GitHub profile.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#383

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If you want people to show up with code why aren't you asking them to take home something and show you their solution in the interview, working through it step by step?

I guess I see that as disrespectful of their time, but I could probably work something like that out. I run a small shop. I am allowed to use my good judgment.

What about the time it takes for interviews? Is it being disrespectful to take up an hour of their time for an interview? What if you do a 2nd interview for another hour? What if you have a 3rd? It's not unusual to have 2 or 3 interviews before hiring. What if you replaced one of those hours with a coding task that should take under 1 hour to complete. Is asking for 1 hour disrespectful to their time? Why is asking for 1 hour of their time to code different than 1 hour of time for interview?

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#384
I don't like the implicit assumption that only a person who's passionate about programming (and [nothing:little+1] else) can be a very good programmer.

I own the book "Pragmatic Programmer", a widely respected book about general programming principles. The bit about its authors:

"Andy Hunt is an avid woodworker and musician, but, curiously, he is more in demand as a consultant. He has worked in telecommunications, banking, financial services, and utilities, as well as in more exotic fields, such as medical imaging, graphic arts, and Internet services. (...)"

"Dave Thomas likes to fly single-engine airplanes and pays for his habit by finding elegant solutions to difficult problems, consulting in areas as diverse as aerospace, banking, financial services, telecommunications, travel and transport, and the Internet.(...)"

Isn't tunnel vision focus on programming a bit limiting ? What about a different perspective provided by different experiences and skills ?

A fox knows many things, but a hedgehog one important thing - attributed to Archilochus

"(Isaiah) Berlin expands upon this idea to divide writers and thinkers into two categories: hedgehogs, who view the world through the lens of a single defining idea (examples given include Plato, Lucretius, Dante Alighieri, Blaise Pascal, Georg Wilhelm Friedrich Hegel, Fyodor Dostoyevsky, Friedrich Nietzsche, Henrik Ibsen, Marcel Proust and Fernand Braudel), and foxes, who draw on a wide variety of experiences and for whom the world cannot be boiled down to a single idea (examples given include Herodotus, Aristotle, Desiderius Erasmus, William Shakespeare, Michel de Montaigne, Molière, Johann Wolfgang Goethe, Aleksandr Pushkin, Honoré de Balzac, James Joyce and Philip Warren Anderson" (Wikipedia)

I think modern society and job market places too big an emphasis on hedgehogs. While backend programming is my profession, I feel more of a fox than a hedgehog. It works well for hobbies, but not really for jobs as currently available. For example ladies tend to compliment me I have a nice voice. I also like books, fantasy and science fiction, and prefer short stories to novels. So I can connect the dots and... record some audio books. I look for old short stories no longer covered by copyright, and intend to record them as "audiobooks". For instance about a village fool who became a werewolf. Another example: I like animals, I'm precise, patient and have an analytical mind. Anwer: Origami. Another example: I can't draw much (I really tried with Gimp and some hand drawing... admittedly, without a good teacher), but I'm somehow attracted to visual arts. As mentioned, I'm analytical, and I'm not too bad at math. Answer: Vector graphics, .svg, Inkscape, writing images in vim. It takes some introspection and observation, but you can figure out what new hobby would give you satisfaction. If you have many interests, try to think what they have in common, or how you could possibly connect them.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I guess I see that as disrespectful of their time, but I could probably work something like that out. I run a small shop. I am allowed to use my good judgment.

I think many of the people on HN that say they won't do a take-home assignment would actually do a 30-60 minute take-home assignment if it meant avoiding the "code some algorithm on a whiteboard while the interviewer glares at you" situation. Then on the on-site, you can focus on the design/behavioral type things appropriate to the role's level of seniority. Also, if you give the same assignment to multiple candidate…

Most people would not think twice if a potential employer interviewed them for 30-60 minutes and then asked them to do a follow-up interview. It's not that unusual to have 3 interviews before getting hired.

But if you ask them to do a 30-minute coding task, that suddenly becomes a total disrespect of their time.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#386
post #263
post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

I think the author is confusing the search for passion with the search for better information. If you can’t share code from past and current employers, and you don’t believe that your quick and dirty solution during the interview represents your best work, then a side project that shows a little carefully crafted code is one way to give a potential employer better information. And better information derisks hiring de…

Everyone is responsible for showcasing their skills and selling themselves. People who refuse to do that are only hurting themselves.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#387

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

Developers are more akin to musicians or artists than a marketing person. Yes, I do expect musicians to practice their instrument and learn new material in their free time, at least a little bit. A musician who _only_ played during paid gigs and never practiced 1 hour outside of the paid jobs, would never learn anything new. They would forever be stuck with their existing repertoire.

Would you hire a musicians who didn't have recordings of their work and wasn't willing to perform an audition? Would you want to hire a musician who didn't practice new things?

The development landscape changes rapidly. Frameworks come and go. If you want to keep up in the industry, you will most likely have to learn a new language or learn a new framework at some point along the way. If you only code during your 9-5 you are forever stuck with your current skill set and will end up like the people in 2017 who only know COBOL and can't do anything else. Your job options will shrivel and you will not be very marketable.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#388

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize that github dates can easily be falsified, right ? Besides, you are only using this as a negative ? So you'll actually hire people who don't put in extra effort over people who put slightly substandard free time code online ? That seems like a losing strategy. I've always found that willingness to put in effort vastly outperforms ability. Not to an infinite extent, but quite a bit.

> You realize that github dates can easily be falsified, right ? If someone knows that much git, I'd hire them regardless. I'm so sick of untangling other peoples failed merges or trying to explain what the "not a fast-forward" issue means when their push fails.

I think many developers just need to take more time and learn git properly. This is a good reference: https://git-scm.com/book/en/v2

Same for regular expressions. Once you know the syntax, they're pretty easy to understand. It just takes practice.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#389
post #340

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You realize that github dates can easily be falsified, right ? If someone knows that much git, I'd hire them regardless. I'm so sick of untangling other peoples failed merges or trying to explain what the "not a fast-forward" issue means when their push fails.

To be fair to the people whose merges failed, I believe this is a shortcoming of git (the tool) and not the people using it. It is fair to expect a developer to invest sometime in learning their tools well but git is a different beast. I know it solves a very complex problem but the fact that it exposes a complex interface to the user to do so seems like a shortcoming of the tool to me. Heck, we even have a comic for…

Haha nooooo, it's really not that difficult! I really don't think git is a different beast. It's much, much harder to master a programming language or web framework.

Compared to something like Rails, iOS development, or React + Redux + Redux Saga, Git is just a couple of commands and basic concepts. Everything is listed here, and I don't think that's an unreasonable number of commands to know: https://git-scm.com/docs

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#390
post #223
post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

I work on internal tools for a major company. You can't see them, some I probably shouldn't even tell you about. When I get home I play video games and watch tv and play with my dog. sometimes I'll screw around with a new language or something else. I don't post stuff on github and keep a blog or anything else like that. I think your view is pretty myopic. Ask me to talk for 30 minutes about one of my projects and fo…

As somebody who has been on the hiring side (not the hiring-manager, just the technical person assigned with deciding whether someone looks like they are what we want or not), I've often just been given a CV after they've been 'pre-screened' by HR.

The issue is I'm usually given a bunch of CVs, and I need to fit this in to whatever other work I've got going on (probably too much already which is why we are hiring). I can arrange interviews, but that probably means I'll need to stay after hours (a lot of people can't just take an hour off in the afternoon to go for an interview), so it's in my best interests to filter down that list. Plus arranging interviews won't just happen the next day - although we need someone yesterday, just deciding who we want to hire is going to take another few weeks.

If I can see that you've got some open source projects or a blog or anything to show how you work, it really helps to make you stand out from everyone else, because most people don't have anything to show. If I had a candidate that looked good, I wouldn't throw them away because they didn't have any side-projects, but if I've got two candidates who both look good on paper, that probably would be the deciding factor.

So yes, hiring someone to build some side-projects for you might be beneficial. At the very least you could use it as a management side-project :D

Another place I worked at gave a small programming assignment (build something to import a CSV into a database). It was pretty simple, and would take you no more than two hours, but it was rather good to see how people work and whether they could follow instructions (>50% of candidates ignored the "write tests" line). This was used to screen people for an interview, during which we would ask them questions about it.

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