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No, of that I'm innocent

scobleizer.blog

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Re: No, of that I'm innocent

#161

Post by emodendroket »

zaroth wrote: post #146
emodendroket wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Surely he doesn't intend to say "I'm not guilty of sexual harassment but rather sexual assault."

Not at all. Sexual harassment describes different behavior than assault, and is not a crime . The same behavior which may be sexual harassment in one context could be entirely appropriate in another context. And all that is to say, there is a necessary context to sexual harassment. Scoble claims that any sexual advances he made lacked the necessary context to be considered sexual harassment. He may not even be wrong.…

To me, hairsplitting about whether the conduct technically counts as sexual harassment is more or less beside the point and even getting into it makes the allegations sound more, rather than less, credible.

Re: No, of that I'm innocent

#162

Post by [deleted] »

wellboy wrote: post #76
joshuaheard wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. I'm not an expert on Sexual Harassment law, but it is my understanding there are 2 general kinds of sexual harassment. One is where there is such pervasive harassment of a sexual nature that it constitutes a "hostile work environment". For instance if firefighters put up centerfolds throughout the firehouse. This does not seem to be alleged here. The other is where a person in a superior position uses tha…

That's new to me that it has to be in a work environment. What about parties, clubs, outdoors anywhere?

[deleted]

Re: No, of that I'm innocent

#163

Post by SAI_Peregrinus »

zaroth wrote: post #120
TarpitCarnivore wrote: post #112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's go even more simple: Just be a decent human being What you do and don't do should not be tied entirely to work relation situations.

Decent human beings make unwanted sexual advances all the fucking time . We can't read each other's minds after all. This is why we go to the trouble of defining a "sexual harassment" standard in the workplace, which holds coworkers to a higher standard of care than what is expected outside of the workplace. Obviously we are not supposed to live our lives interacting with every other human purely professionally .

Harassment is a pattern of undesired behavior. One advance is OK, but if you're turned down you DO NOT MAKE ANOTHER to that person. Just accept it and move on.

Really that's it. It applies everywhere. It applies to non-sexual harassment as well.

Re: No, of that I'm innocent

#164

Post by slg »

zaroth wrote: post #148
slg wrote: post #127

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I believe you are looking at this problem the wrong way. Part of that is the fault of the media and all of us on social media that focus on the heinousness of Harvey Weinstein's actions and our immediate move to dehumanize and vilify him. Weinstein was so far past the line that it might cloud were the line actually is. It is only natural for men to look at him and go "I'm not that bad, I didn't threaten anyone, I did…

In a perfect world, no one's feelings get hurt in love, and there is no war. We do not live in that world, and as mere mortals we are incapable of creating such a utopia. It's a strawman that "your first romantic move with someone shouldn't be a grope or an offer to get naked." The reality is that ham-fisted proposals and hurtful rejection are rampant 'out there on the dance floor' and the purpose of sexual harassmen…

I was not referring to sexual harassment in the legal sense. I was referring to it in the literal sense of harassment of a sexual nature. For example cat calling a woman on the street might be legal, but that is still literally sexual harassment and shouldn't be acceptable. If you use empathy as your guideline for your own personal behavior, the actual code of conduct for your employer or whatever professional environment you are in is irrelevant because you will already be abiding by a higher standard.

Re: No, of that I'm innocent

#165

Post by zaroth »

slg wrote: post #164
zaroth wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In a perfect world, no one's feelings get hurt in love, and there is no war. We do not live in that world, and as mere mortals we are incapable of creating such a utopia. It's a strawman that "your first romantic move with someone shouldn't be a grope or an offer to get naked." The reality is that ham-fisted proposals and hurtful rejection are rampant 'out there on the dance floor' and the purpose of sexual harassmen…

I was not referring to sexual harassment in the legal sense. I was referring to it in the literal sense of harassment of a sexual nature. For example cat calling a woman on the street might be legal, but that is still literally sexual harassment and shouldn't be acceptable. If you use empathy as your guideline for your own personal behavior, the actual code of conduct for your employer or whatever professional enviro…

This is what entirely missing the point of sexual harassment policy looks like. Sexual harassment policy is a workplace equalizer. It's literally not about men acting like gentleman or having a higher standard.

If you're talking about harassment in general, umm... people are obnoxious to each other constantly and perpetually. Kumbaya let's make it all better? I don't think so!

Re: No, of that I'm innocent

#166

Post by zaroth »

emodendroket wrote: post #161
zaroth wrote: post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not at all. Sexual harassment describes different behavior than assault, and is not a crime . The same behavior which may be sexual harassment in one context could be entirely appropriate in another context. And all that is to say, there is a necessary context to sexual harassment. Scoble claims that any sexual advances he made lacked the necessary context to be considered sexual harassment. He may not even be wrong.…

To me, hairsplitting about whether the conduct technically counts as sexual harassment is more or less beside the point and even getting into it makes the allegations sound more, rather than less, credible.

Maybe I misunderstood the purpose of this thread. I didn't think this was about assessing the specific allegations at all, but precisely about understanding the definition of sexual harassment.

Re: No, of that I'm innocent

#167

Post by slg »

zaroth wrote: post #165
slg wrote: post #164

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was not referring to sexual harassment in the legal sense. I was referring to it in the literal sense of harassment of a sexual nature. For example cat calling a woman on the street might be legal, but that is still literally sexual harassment and shouldn't be acceptable. If you use empathy as your guideline for your own personal behavior, the actual code of conduct for your employer or whatever professional enviro…

This is what entirely missing the point of sexual harassment policy looks like. Sexual harassment policy is a workplace equalizer. It's literally not about men acting like gentleman or having a higher standard. If you're talking about harassment in general, umm... people are obnoxious to each other constantly and perpetually. Kumbaya let's make it all better? I don't think so!

Agree to disagree then. I think this is a symptom of a larger issue and I think it is a disservice to only try to remedy the symptom rather than looking for larger change.

Re: No, of that I'm innocent

#168

Post by [deleted] »

sadlkfieiujjd wrote: post #103
DanBC wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lots of sexual harassment is not criminal. (It's still, obviously, no acceptable).

My problem now, what makes me irate, is that the #metoo tag embodies this idea that, because so many women have been silent victims of harassment and assault, that any claim to harassment or assault somehow must be trustworthy because it is being openly stated. I was listening to a program on NPR the other day, and the guest was somehow bemoaning the fact that when individuals make claims of being victimized, they ar…

[deleted]

Re: No, of that I'm innocent

#170

Post by cisanti »

astura wrote: post #152
cisanti wrote: post #134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's a man down right now and probably very emotional. Just a guess, but should have listened to his lawyer. Also, U.S seem to have strange views on what is sexual assault. I don't know who is quilt or who is lying, but reading some of them are things I would avoid women over the ocean all together.

What do you mean exactly as "strange views on what is sexual assult?" Are you getting it confused with sexual harassment? which we are also talking about in this thread.

I meant the whole idea that regret can be rape. Also the fact that if you have power, everything can be seen as a sexual assault
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