By coincidence, "Freedom to Roam" came up in a recent HN thread: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Freedom_to_roam the general public's right to access certain public or privately owned land for recreation and exercise. The right is sometimes called the right of public access to the wilderness or the "right to roam". In Scotland, the Nordic countries of Finland, Iceland, Norway and Sweden, the Baltic countries of Estonia…
The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
121–130 of 177 posts
Re: The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
#122Business idea: Charge a fare to take people into the federal land via helicopter loudly flying over private land.
https://www.bozemandailychronicle.com/lawsuit-seeks-to-build...
Re: The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
#123This is a complicated topic. I used to own the lower part of a mountain valley (out west but not in Montana). There were two dirt "roads" into the valley, both immediately against the titled property; the rest of the valley was Federal (BLM) land encircled by mountains that were effectively impassable. Americans generally have a right to use and temporarily occupy these Federal lands without permission, so if I put u…
Interesting topic. Could you talk a bit about the state laws that regulate incorporation? For instance, depending on the state, could you incorporate and then ask the state for assistance in requesting authority to maintain the federal roads? Also, how is federal ownership of the land different from if a private entity owned it? If the roads were privately owned, would you still run into the same issues?
Federal land has one important difference from private land or even State land: the regulations regarding management and use are pretty disconnected from the realities of the lands under management or the population that lives there, aggravated by the fact that these decisions are primarily made by people that have live very far away from where most Federal land is located and have no experience with those regions.
Re: The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
#124The only sane response is to exercise control of your land by putting up signs, fences, etc.
Re: The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
#125I grew up in Livingston MT just a 20 min drive from the Crazies, I know these trails, and this is one if the saddest things I have ever read on HN. Now I live on the West coast but I miss Montana all the time and visit whenever I can. To be honest, I really can't fathom how terrible things have gotten politically with the likes of the despicably corrupt Zinke and Gioforte. Personally, I watched everything change so f…
You get some rich people from somewhere else who move in and throw all local culture and tradition away. It's happening in Colorado. Every Fourteener (14,000+ foot mountains) used to be publicly accessible but we got some greedy folks who moved in and shut down that traditional access to at least five of them so far. If I ever come into a sizable fortune my plan is to acquire these lands and turn them over to the pub…
It's happening in Colorado. Every Fourteener (14,000+
foot mountains) used to be publicly accessible
but we got some greedy folks who moved in and shut
down that traditional access to at least five of them so
far.
Which ones? I just did all the 14ers this year, and didn't have problems with access to any.
(Culebra was one I paid for a reservation)Re: The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
#126Earlier quoted context omitted.
You get some rich people from somewhere else who move in and throw all local culture and tradition away. It's happening in Colorado. Every Fourteener (14,000+ foot mountains) used to be publicly accessible but we got some greedy folks who moved in and shut down that traditional access to at least five of them so far. If I ever come into a sizable fortune my plan is to acquire these lands and turn them over to the pub…
That is a shame. I think Culebra Peak has always been private access. At least it when I was bagging them back in the 1990's. What are the other four that are problematic now?
Re: The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
#127Earlier quoted context omitted.
Guidance is really the job of the parks services. The problems come when the burdens get thrust upon the landowners.
Elsewhere in these comments are people saying that landowners will remove (public) signage(!), which might impact what the parks people can do? Maybe a well-publicised term for a private easement that people recognise is treated in a particular way? I like that in the States, National Park means something, BLM means something, etc. Our designations in Australia don't seem as clear. We have Crown land, but I have no i…
Really this is called "sharing" and it's sad that it's causing so many problems.
Re: The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
#128Earlier quoted context omitted.
The main function of the modern government apparatus is to divide up the commons and parcel them out for private ownership. Coase was just another power-supplicating priest.
Your understanding of Coase is pathetic and you should be ashamed of yourself.
https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html
Edit: I'm sad to see that you've posted nastily uncivil comments before this too. We ban accounts that do that, so would you please read those guidelines and err on the side of civility when posting here?
Re: The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
#129Earlier quoted context omitted.
Local representatives don’t get to counter the almighty EPA, which writes and enforces all of the environmental regulations affecting this kind of thing.
Sure, but they have some influence with the EPA. They will at least be able to get a meeting with someone reasonably high up at the EPA and if that fails they can introduce legislation to force the EPA to change the regulations.
They may have a valid point since only money talks in government these days.
Re: The fight over preserving public land takes a twist in Montana’s mountains
#130Wow. I'm pretty sure the idea of public rights of way as a legal right of access across private property predates the entire US. That's a hell of a thing for the government to try and eradicate for the benefit of private landowners.
The main function of the modern government apparatus is to divide up the commons and parcel them out for private ownership. Coase was just another power-supplicating priest.