Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work • Hacker News Board

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#101

Post by ifhd » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 11:16 PM UTC

theseus7 wrote: post #90

leggomylibro wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need more than universal healthcare; we need straight-up universal care. The idea should be that periods of unemployment or uncertainty are not terrifying gray areas for an average person. If people felt comfortable that they would have support for finding better pastures from a shitty job, they'd be more likely to seek them. If they felt more confident that they had prospects after a layoff, they'd be more likely…

> How about a party for workers? Possible principles for a workers party: - maximize after-rent and after-tax disposable income of workers - shift all taxes off of wages from labor and onto ground rent from private enclosures of land and natural resources - support a universal public savings account for all citizen residents over 20 - democratically divide and deposit all surplus natural resource rents directly into…

- Seize the means of production

wait no, you aren't suggesting communism.

I don't think switching to a property tax system is the way to go. Wouldn't it end up hurting people as you just see rents rise?

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#102

Post by Aloha » Wed, Oct 25, 2017, 11:29 PM UTC

Density wrote: post #87

Aloha wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We need guaranteed minimum income, its the most freedom enhancing way of solving these problems. Give people cash, give them financial literacy training, the rest ought to work out okay.

This solution also sidesteps the atrocious incentives of unemployment payouts. You might be making more from unemployment than by working a min wage job so why take it?

Most states do not require you to take the first job that comes along - you are only required to take that if you have tried and cannot otherwise find work

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#103

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 12:38 AM UTC

zzalpha wrote: post #96

WalterBright wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Employer's FICA contribution 2. Vacation paid time off 3. Sick leave paid time off 4. Maternity/Paternity paid time off 5. health care benefits 6. free/subsidized lunch 7. free bus passes 8. 401k employer matching contribution 9. employee stock purchase plans 10. stock options 11. bonuses 12. profit sharing / commissions 13. retirement plan 14. education tuition help 15. random other things like gym memberships, l…

ROFL, wow, talk about cherry-picking to make a case... The fact is the US offers the least PTO of any developed nation. Same goes with sick leave and mat/pat leave. And free lunch? Free bus passes? Stock and option plans, profit sharing, educiation/tuition, retirement, gym memberships... HA! I know this is shocking, but: most of the world isn't SV. Those benefits are fantasies for the vast majority of American salari…

> cherry-picking

The last two links are statistics.

> this isn't SV

You're right, Boeing is not part of Silicon Valley. Government & military employees also, as a rule, get generous benefits.

But that's all beside the point, which is that the cost of those benefits should be added in when comparing salaries.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#104

Post by WalterBright » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 12:41 AM UTC

gehwartzen wrote: post #97

WalterBright wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1. Employer's FICA contribution 2. Vacation paid time off 3. Sick leave paid time off 4. Maternity/Paternity paid time off 5. health care benefits 6. free/subsidized lunch 7. free bus passes 8. 401k employer matching contribution 9. employee stock purchase plans 10. stock options 11. bonuses 12. profit sharing / commissions 13. retirement plan 14. education tuition help 15. random other things like gym memberships, l…

Besides FICA and Healthcare none of those things are mandated by law. Companies provide them to compete in the labor market.

That's no longer true:

https://fairygodboss.com/career-topics/pregnancy-maternity-l...

http://www.seattle.gov/laborstandards/ordinances/paid-sick-a...

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#105

Post by theseus7 » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:41 AM UTC

ifhd wrote: post #101

theseus7 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about a party for workers? Possible principles for a workers party: - maximize after-rent and after-tax disposable income of workers - shift all taxes off of wages from labor and onto ground rent from private enclosures of land and natural resources - support a universal public savings account for all citizen residents over 20 - democratically divide and deposit all surplus natural resource rents directly into…

- Seize the means of production wait no, you aren't suggesting communism. I don't think switching to a property tax system is the way to go. Wouldn't it end up hurting people as you just see rents rise?

I am advocating a land value tax, not a property tax. This is the most progressive tax possible as the incidence of the tax does not fall upon labor at all.

> Wouldn't it end up hurting people as you just see rents rise?

No, rents would not rise in proportion to the tax. Adding a tax as a carrying cost on a good of fixed supply such as land produces the opposite effect of a tax of goods and services. It increases the supply of available land and decreases prices because the tax makes land less attractive as a speculative investment and store of wealth. It encourages land holders to sell off any underutilized land being held for speculative purposes, thus increasing the supply of land available for actual use and improvement by workers, and lowering its price.

The 'ground rent' collected by landholders is the surplus profit above what is necessary to bring the land into use. If no one paid ground rent to private landholders, the supply of land would still remain the same, and there would still be just as much land available for everyone to use. Confiscating private ground rent simply shifts this payment from private parties to the state, and the tax cannot be passed on to renters through higher prices at all.

This increases the disposable income of a super-majority, because once all private ground is instead paid to the government for the provision of essential goods and services, all other taxes which fall upon the labor of workers, such as payroll and consumption taxes, can be eliminated.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#106

Post by JBlue42 » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:49 AM UTC

JBlue42 wrote: post #77

notsohugedeal22 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exactly why we need universal healthcare in the US It’s something every worker should be fighting tooth and nail for It would go a long way to breaking up the neoliberal corporate hegemony Sadly, and regardless of education and political leanings, Americans seem in love with a fictional account of the countries history. That it was all great 50 yrs ago without universal healthcare (when they were kids and not really…

What's a worker to do? I live in a blue city in a blue state and vote for the blue people that say they're going to help out with this. They are not the majority and the other party are hell-bent on destroying what little advancements have been made. Not to mention, it's pretty hard to reshape ideas that have been adopted or bred into the culture over the years. Health care should not be tied to employment but it's b…

Maybe reply instead of downvoting folks.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#107

Post by ifhd » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:52 AM UTC

theseus7 wrote: post #105

ifhd wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

- Seize the means of production wait no, you aren't suggesting communism. I don't think switching to a property tax system is the way to go. Wouldn't it end up hurting people as you just see rents rise?

I am advocating a land value tax, not a property tax. This is the most progressive tax possible as the incidence of the tax does not fall upon labor at all. > Wouldn't it end up hurting people as you just see rents rise? No, rents would not rise in proportion to the tax. Adding a tax as a carrying cost on a good of fixed supply such as land produces the opposite effect of a tax of goods and services. It increases the…

So I buy some land. I plop an apartment building down on it. I pay "land tax" on the land.

Why would I not just raise rents to preserve my profits?

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#108

Post by brewdad » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:54 AM UTC

techiferous wrote: post #84

lkrubner wrote: post #7

Another powerful demographic force in the USA is the number of men who are ex-convicts: ""Few of us today are aware of the staggering size of this group. In a forthcoming study, Sarah Shannon, a sociologist at the University of Georgia, and five colleagues estimate that America’s criminal class (people with a felony conviction or prison time in their background) roughly quadrupled between 1980 and 2010 — from 5 milli…

> population to have topped 23 million by now Assuming an error rate of about 4%, this means that about 900,000 Americans have been wrongly convicted -- about the population of San Francisco.

Do you have a source for your 4% figure or is that just a gut feel estimate? I have no idea (as if anyone can definitively know) what the actual rate might be.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#109

Post by theseus7 » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 2:57 AM UTC

ifhd wrote: post #101

theseus7 wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> How about a party for workers? Possible principles for a workers party: - maximize after-rent and after-tax disposable income of workers - shift all taxes off of wages from labor and onto ground rent from private enclosures of land and natural resources - support a universal public savings account for all citizen residents over 20 - democratically divide and deposit all surplus natural resource rents directly into…

- Seize the means of production wait no, you aren't suggesting communism. I don't think switching to a property tax system is the way to go. Wouldn't it end up hurting people as you just see rents rise?

Communism is anti-worker because it leads to rampant rent-seeking by political organizers responsible for coordinating the provision of collectively owned capital goods, which is a necessarily a complex problem, since a capital good could refer to any manufactured good which is 'durable' and not immediately consumed.

However the base means of production for any economy as recognized by the Physiocrats and all classical economists is land and natural resources, which are non-produced resources of fixed supply that are a wholly distinct factor of production than capital.

While it is not necessary or desirable for the state to seize capital or private interest payments paid for the use of capital, it should sieze the 'ground rent' which is acquired from private enclosures of natural resources, as unlike interest on capital the surplus ground rent paid to landholders does nothing to increase the supply of land, and is collected even if the land were to remain idle and the landholder invested nothing in its actual improvement.

Re: Most US jobs created since 2005 are not conventional full-time work

#110

Post by theseus7 » Thu, Oct 26, 2017, 3:10 AM UTC

ifhd wrote: post #107

theseus7 wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I am advocating a land value tax, not a property tax. This is the most progressive tax possible as the incidence of the tax does not fall upon labor at all. > Wouldn't it end up hurting people as you just see rents rise? No, rents would not rise in proportion to the tax. Adding a tax as a carrying cost on a good of fixed supply such as land produces the opposite effect of a tax of goods and services. It increases the…

So I buy some land. I plop an apartment building down on it. I pay "land tax" on the land. Why would I not just raise rents to preserve my profits?

You will still be competing against everyone else who does the same, and your competition will be vastly increased. It will no longer be profitable for other nearby land holders to hold on to idle, vacant, or under-utilized land. For instance, if someone is holding on to a vacant building, a parking lot, or low density commercial development such as a strip mall, it may no longer be profitable to hold on to these under a land value tax.

The vacant building may be replaced with several small town houses, the low density commercial buildings may be replaced with multi-story mixed used buildings with additional housing built-in, as property owners seek to increase the value of their buildings relative to surrounding buildings in order to acquire a profit larger than the land value tax. They would pay the same tax regardless of whether they left the land vacant or put it to use, so there is a strong incentive for them to put it to the best use possible.

When land is actually improved and put to use, this increases the demand for labor and raises wages so that wages increase faster than rent. When land is held idle for speculative purposes, rent increases faster than wages and the average worker becomes poorer even if the output of the economy is increasing. Nominal prices may change in reaction to market condition, but what is important is wages relative to rent.