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I have no side code projects to show you

codementor.io

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Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#181

Post by vacri »

sidlls wrote: post #37
TAForObvReasons wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Side projects are for software what a portfolio is for other creative industries. You don't hire a designer sight unseen -- usually you ask for a sample. It makes perfect sense to expect the same of technology.

Only if you believe software development is neither engineering nor science, and is purely creative. It isn't, though, and demanding a portfolio is almost as terrible a practice as Cracking the Coding Interview style interviews.

Software development is a craft, not fully art and not fully engineering. It definitely is not science.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#182

Post by 2trill2spill »

yjftsjthsd-h wrote: post #146
2trill2spill wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Maybe that's not a job I want, if the hiring manager is lazy enough to 'require' side projects to consider a candidate. I understand that you might not want a job there and that part of a job interview is deciding if the company is a fit for you. But I wouldn't call a hiring manager lazy because they want to see examples of your work, in fact that's their job. How is a hiring manager suppose to make a thorough eval…

And how an I supposed to tell whether they're worth working for without seeing their work?

> And how an I supposed to tell whether they're worth working for without seeing their work?

Ask questions, and do you really expect a hiring manager to have work relevant to your interview to show? But you can ask about policy, culture, etc.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#183

Post by braymundo »

appleiigs wrote: post #89
colomon wrote: post #48

What strikes me as weird about this is the assumption that it's an either/or proposition. I am passionate about playing traditional dance music. And I have supported this by writing a program to generate high quality sheet music from ABC scores; scripts to download collections of scores or MP3s off the web; scripts to handle tagging/naming my MP3 files; etc. I am passionate about RPGs. Back in the day I supported thi…

> The idea that a programmer could have an entire second business and not write any interesting code in the process strikes me as really odd. There are NO tasks for the company that could be usefully automated? He runs a dog business. Probably best using pen and paper... or microsoft office... definitely not custom code.

I don't know, man... My girlfriend is a psychologist and I built a small Python program to generate reports using python-docx based on input from standard tests. It was a small project that took me 2 months and was pretty fun (and I work with support, not development). My point being: one can find neat problems to solve anywhere, spend a few weeks, have fun and end up with something to show.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#184

Post by [deleted] »

warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

[deleted]

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#185

Post by GoToRO »

eropple wrote: post #172
GoToRO wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thanks for mentioning this. I just finished a desktop app. They wanted to pay X but when the little app was done another colaborating company found out so I made 2.5 * X in total. Now the first company came back and they want another app for 4.5 * X. Is this how it all starts? :)

Pretty much. Making the coefficients go up to the point where you can hire other people is the name of the game.

Thanks!

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#186

Post by warcher »

walshemj wrote: post #66
warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

Dude as a Dude who knows a little about employment law all your work code belongs to your employer.

Sure, sure. And if you followed the letter of the law I’m sure you deleted it all from your laptop promptly and is unavailable to you no matter what.

But if you didn’t, for whatever reason, and you happen to have an illegal copy of some production CRUD app hanging around so I can look at how you organize your thoughts, nobody I’ve interviewed has ever gotten even a whiff of heat for letting me look over their shoulder and see how they wrote their schema. I don’t want a digital copy and I could give a shit about your illegally retained IP (and there’s a whole lot of it floating around). I want to know what you name your variables.

The best way forward is absolutely some open source code, folks clean up better in public and you don’t have to make apologies for things that weren’t your fault.

But this smells like folks just wanting me to take their word, and it ain’t gonna happen. I’m flexible, but when in doubt I choose ‘no’. If the next guy can prove it and you can’t, hey, plenty of fish in the sea.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#187

Post by vacri »

jasode wrote: post #99
shortsightedsid wrote: post #25

It's funny that the tech industry is so insistent on side projects. I mean - would you hire a marketing person based on their 'side projects' or a corporate lawyer purely based on their pro-bono work? Likewise, who on earth asks a building contractor if they have any side projects? You would ask for references or find a contractor via someone you know. What about recruiters themselves? How does one judge if a person…

>Or what about other engineering disciplines? Does one really ask a Mechanical Engineer or a Civil Engineer about their side projects? Not civil engineers (because it's hard to build a 4-lane suspension bridge on a Saturday) but very often candidates in electronic and electrical engineering have side projects that can help them land a job. Are the electronics breadboard projects that you did in your garage absolutely…

> In contrast, people typically do not "lawyering" for recreational fun.

Indeed, it's the opposite - industry bodies have to mandate pro bono work, which wouldn't get done otherwise.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#188

Post by watwut »

2trill2spill wrote: post #51
sbov wrote: post #19

I like to have side projects, but I still don't like to share them. People love to find reasons to reject, and an 18, 11, or 7 year long side project (the age of all my side projects) isn't really a fair representation of how I code today. Even as someone who enjoys side projects, the prospect of sharing a side project, and being criticized by a potential employer about the contents of it, turns it from "side project…

> Even as someone who enjoys side projects, the prospect of sharing a side project, and being criticized by a potential employer about the contents of it, turns it from "side project" to work. You should be able to take constructive criticism of your work regardless if it's a side project or not.

He hadn't said he is afraid of constructive criticism. He said he is afraid someone will hold something in it against him. The two are profoundly different.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#189

Post by warcher »

carlisle_ wrote: post #108
warcher wrote: post #31

I’m not mad at you, but as the dude on the other side of the desk, I have to decide whether you can cut it and I’m fine saying no. I could make you do some whiteboard problems, but I think whiteboard problems are pretty far removed from your day to day development and I am uncomfortable relying on them as a proxy for your ability to ship code. I don’t really disagree with your philosophy of working while you’re worki…

If you want people to show up with code why aren't you asking them to take home something and show you their solution in the interview, working through it step by step?

I guess I see that as disrespectful of their time, but I could probably work something like that out. I run a small shop. I am allowed to use my good judgment.

Re: I have no side code projects to show you

#190

Post by odonnellryan »

TylerE wrote: post #22
zamalek wrote: post #3

> I ran 50+ miles a week. I pushed myself to excel. To excel within the boundaries of the time and life-balance I had set for myself. Part of excelling at your job is learning new stuff - something that I am absolutely certain you do all the time, even if you only do it during work hours. Maybe this week you are starting a new project and need to learn Vue. Publish those 100 lines of code to GitHub. Just like that yo…

Better check your employment agreement. My company owns what I write on company time, I don't have the rights to just "put it on GitHub", and yes, I take that seriously.

You should, because it's absolutely grounds for termination at many companies.
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